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(Rising Tide) No speculation on Hybrid Affinities and New sponsors?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Metecury, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. rune42

    rune42 Chieftain

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    There are two very different Koreas in the real world.

    http://i.imgur.com/v9FyEtL.jpg

    PAC also has the least amount of korean city names. (2 korean cities vs. 3+ for other languages). They could also slip Taiwan into the pacific naval faction as well. Either Taiwan gets swallowed up by China after the Great Mistake, or they form a united front with Japan/South Korea to keep their autonomy.
     
  2. Galgus

    Galgus Emperor

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    Purity and Harmony can both adopt advanced robotics - it's sentient AIs that are more of a Supremacy thing.
     
  3. Veras

    Veras Prince

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    It's funny how optimistic we tend to be when we automaticaly imagine a future where Korea is reunited. Yes, it is possible and likely, but so is the fate of being separated for more 200 years.

    Anyway, even if PAC got a few Korean names, they could be easily replaced. There already are no mentions of Korea on civlopedia and other sources. I like the idea of a Japanese and Taiwanese (and maybe South Korea/Unified Korea) union. If they featured the far more unlikely Chinese-Vietnamese union, so why not?
     
  4. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    Thing is you're applying the real-life present day state of North and South Korea to a fictionalized future, while dismissing the fact that most South Koreans currently view Japan as a greater existential threat than China.

    So your view that South Korea and Japan would form a coalition and that North and South Korea would still be separate comes off as selective reasoning.
     
  5. rune42

    rune42 Chieftain

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    They view Japan as a greater threat than China? Selective reasoning? Wheres your citation?

    Here's mine:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/world/asia/south-korea-to-sign-historic-military-pact-with-japan.html?_r=1

    Clearly, South Korea feels China is a greater threat than Japan or they wouldn't have signed a military intelligence pact with each other. As the old adage goes, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
     
  6. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    2012? Here are my more recent citations:

    http://www.globescan.com/images/ima...gs/2013_country_rating_poll_bbc_globescan.pdf
    http://www.the-american-interest.co...reans-view-japan-as-credible-military-threat/
    http://www.rt.com/news/264033-japan-korea-threat-survey/

    This tends to happen when one side starts backpedaling on its views of Korean comfort women, ie flat-out denying they were ever forced into sexual servitude while also trying to dissolve the pacifist elements of their constitution.

    In the long-term, a South Korea-China union is far more likely.

    In short, brush up on your current events.
     
  7. rune42

    rune42 Chieftain

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    You linked to surveys. I linked to an actual military cooperation agreement.

    If we're talking about surveys now, then there are generational gaps in sentiments because of the past vs. the present.
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/25/south-koreas-millennials-downbeat-about-payoff-of-education-future/

    Unless South Korea and Japan go to war in the near future, this trend is going to continue.
     
  8. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    And if you disregard current events, that's fine. Also, where in that agreement is there a mutual defense pact against Chinese aggression?

    The Japanese government meanwhile just passed legislation to amend their pacifist constitution that's already making it incredibly unpopular among the general population and helping to stoke tensions with Seoul. But I guess we'll disregard that too, as well as all the recent courting between China and South Korea.

    Also your previous question:

    I believe I answered it more than adequately. If I knew you were going to try to move goalposts, I wouldn't have bothered. But I suppose surveys can be easily dismissed as well if we're referring to countries without democratic governments.

    Unfortunately for you, South Korea and Japan are both democratic governments whose people currently view each other very negatively.

    58% of South Koreans view Japan as a military threat, while only 38% see China that way.

    If you can't accept information even when it's staring you in the face, that's not really my problem.

    Now if you want to pursue this discussion, I suggest you take it out of this thread.
     
  9. oldag07

    oldag07 Warlord

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    World War 2 still looms largely in a lot of Asian countries head, whither or not the threat is objective or not. Some people are more afraid of planes then driving even though statistically, planes are far safer. Japan isn't as much of a threat. It is an old population, and it really hasn't shown as aggressive territorial ambitions as China has as of recently. (See South China Sea or Senkaku islands)
     
  10. rune42

    rune42 Chieftain

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    Which recent courting between China and South Korea?

    China and South Korea court each other on the economic and political front.
    China and North Korea court each other on the economic, military, and political front (although the political front is deteriorating).
    China and Japan court each other on the economic front.
    South Korea and Japan court each other on the economic and military front.
    South Korea and North Korea barely court each other on the economic front.
    North Korea and Japan don't court each other.

    I never moved goalposts. I cited military action. You cited political words.
     
  11. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

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    Your conversation bores me endlessly
     
  12. Thetford

    Thetford Chieftain

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    I suppose there could be a sponsor not based on geography, but rather, other factors such as wealth for example. Whose territories cover the world's leading financial megacities (London, New York, Tokyo, Hong Kong etc - in many cases, they are already on a culturally different planet than their municipal neighbours), that operate as a loosely affiliated group of autonomous city states, that have good fortune to be located in most major territories.
     
  13. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars King

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    Oh I agree. My concerns lie only within the context of a potential Robotics driven Japanese based Sponsor. Personally I don't really see an issue with the Purity variant of this kind of Sponsor. The reason I said anything is because Harmony clearly has techs that feature robotics and AI though they adopt a "swarm" architecture. Purity doesn't deliver in the same way when I look at the tech web. However, as you have said, any robotics technologies they do possess don't focus on AI (with the exception of the Aegis).

    The issue would be with the backstory. If they developed robotics and AI on Old Earth, then people would question why they would abandon the pursuit of those technologies. Again, I don't really see an issue. If the leader of this hypothetical sponsor decides that actively pushing AI development would not benefit the colony then it just gets developed on the backburner or just isn't instituted as a main part of colonial infrastructure.

    I'm certain that the Affinities don't ignore technologies and merely choose to focus on specific ones.

    ---------------------------------

    I think a robotics Japan definitely makes sense. And if you've heard of metabolist architecture, there is even more precedent for an aquatic base. To paraphrase Metabolism is a design approach that views architecture as an organism and emulates the nature of organic biological growth within a structure (usually megastructure).

    One of the first Metabolists Kiyonori Kikutake, drafted a concept for Oceanic cities:

    Ocean City

    Master Plan
    Spoiler :


    Model
    Spoiler :


    Article
    Spoiler :
    Kikutake's Ocean City is the first essay in the pamphlet. It covered his two previously published projects "Tower-shaped City" and "Marine City" and included a new project "Ocean City" that was a combination of the first two. The first two of these projects introduced the Metabolist's idea of "artificial land" as well as "major" and "minor" structure. Kawazoe referred to "artificial land" in an article in the magazine Kindai Kenchiku in April 1960. In responding to the scarcity of land in large and expanding cities he proposed creating "artificial land" that would be composed of concrete slabs, oceans or walls (onto which capsules could be plugged). He said that the creation of this "artificial land" would allow people to use other land in a more natural way.

    For Marine (Ocean) City, Kikutake proposed a city that would float free in the ocean and would be free of ties to a particular nation and therefore free from the threat of war. The artificial ground of the city would house agriculture, industry and entertainment and the residential towers would descend into the ocean to a depth of 200 metres. The city itself was not tied to the land and was free to float across the ocean and grow organically like an organism. Once it became too aged for habitation it would sink itself.

    Ocean City was a combination of both Tower-shaped City and Marine City. It consisted of two rings that were tangent to one another, with housing on the inner ring and production on the outer one. Administrative buildings were found at the tangent point. The population would have been rigidly controlled at an upper limit of 500,000. Kikutake envisaged that the city would expand by multiplying itself as though it was undergoing cell division. This enforced the Metabolist idea that the expansion of cities could be a biological process.

    - Metabolism (Architecture) Wikipedia


    In other words this is just another piece of evidence that would make it incredibly appropriate for Japan to be an aquatic Sponsor. Robotics technologies would be unbelievably helpful in the creation of ocean cities.
     
  14. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    South Korea is already a member of PAC.

    Deal with it.
     
  15. Veras

    Veras Prince

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    I like the idea of a Japanese faction heavily based on robotics. But what would be their unique ability? I can't see how robotics would make them explore the new features of the game. My bet on a Japanese would be on some kind of scavenger faction with bonus on artifacts and expeditions, or something more Imperial based on bonus to diplomatic capital.

    Although I'm saving my bet on the Caribbean as the other sea based sponsor. With an Unique Ability based on stronger navies. Because pirates. Yarrr
     
  16. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    I hope they're Space Rastafarians.

    Their special ability can be sacrificing production for happiness.

    They would be the only Civ that retains the happiness meter instead of health.
     
  17. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    And they'd get extra "Happiness" for every unit that ends its turn in Miasma?
     
  18. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    It'd be quite a sight.

    Stumbling on a faction whose soldiers and workers are all scattered about and withering away in clouds of noxious, corrosive fumes.
     
  19. 4N4C0ND4

    4N4C0ND4 King

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    I see what you did here :crazyeye:
     
  20. legalizefreedom

    legalizefreedom Inefficiency Expert

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    This would be a great idea if Polystralia didn't exist. Polystralia would be a perfect aquatic faction and your idea would be a perfect economic focused faction. Who knows, maybe they have aquatic plans for Polystralia... but taking away their economic focus isn't likely.
     

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