(Rising Tide) No speculation on Hybrid Affinities and New sponsors?

[Galgus]

I like the idea of a "reborn HRE" it could potentially play on the new aspects of the diplomatic system. I may be watching too much Europa Universalis IV...

I still need to force myself to learn that game.

When I tried it I was playing the precursor to the Incans not really knowing what to do, probably losing too much prestige by being nice with decisions.

I think I need a restart and a fresh attempt to not get wiped out by a European power.

That is a sweet write up. I really like how the aspects you wrote up mesh with each other. From what I know about design, it a lot about getting the concept to match context.

Yours is also, I like the Wayfinder Initiative as a sea city sponsor.

I'm still a little worried that my sponsor bonus may not be fitting enough, though I hoped to tie it in with the restoration efforts and the unconventional Seeding construction.

 

[DefiantMars]

I still need to force myself to learn that game.

When I tried it I was playing the precursor to the Incans not really knowing what to do, probably losing too much prestige by being nice with decisions.

I think I need a restart and a fresh attempt to not get wiped out by a European power.

Unfortunately I don’t play myself. I just watch. Its really interesting though. Though due to my bias, I am saddened by the state of the Pacific. It is EUROPA Universalis, but I don’t even think there are events.

Yours is also, I like the Wayfinder Initiative as a sea city sponsor.

One of the main reasons I think that my Wayfinder Initiative reads well is because of just how much personal interest I have in it. It was in many ways a stab at the Eurocentric mindset. Instead of the amalgamation that is the Polynesia Civ, I took an aspect that is actually shared among Polynesian cultures. Wayfinding is the art of navigating without instruments. With current real world conditions and the BE timeline, it was really easy to make a plausible history. All I had to do was make sure to keep in check with the Commonwealth’s background.

I'm still a little worried that my sponsor bonus may not be fitting enough, though I hoped to tie it in with the restoration efforts and the unconventional Seeding construction.

I’m not even sure if the Initiative’s “Culture and Production when Trade Routes complete” works anymore in light of Rising Tide’s system. Again, I think it is a lot about context, to say nothing of balance. It makes sense to them but not in context to the setting. I like the idea of the leveraging the Artifacts for more bonuses. But I think understand what you’re getting at.

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I’ve seen suggestions for Mediterranean based sponsors including a “New Byzantium”. Some have suggested a Swiss based Sponsor that takes on the Diplomatic focus. Caribbean/Central American and Japanese are the other frequently suggested Aquatic Sponsors. Personally I’d like to see all of them eventually.

 

[Galgus]

Europa Universalis seems great with its detail, but at the same time I miss some of the freedom in what happens in Civ 5.
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The biggest weakness I see in the Wayfinder Initiative is that Polystralia may have the area in lore, though that is such a huge stretch of ocean that I'm fine with both existing.

It fits extremely well as a pioneer in colonizing the oceans, fitting the theme of Rising Tide.

Emphasizing wayfinding and adapting to ocean life makes for a very unique way of adapting to the Great Mistake.
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Honestly the faction's background is probably more important than its bonus for design brainstorming, and the Wayfinders have a lot of material to work with for a bonus.

To throw out an idea in case the old bonus doesn't work in Rising Tide, perhaps they could gain a one-time culture boost for each tile explored - fog of war revealed - and each expedition.
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I do love the idea of a New Byzantium sponsor, mostly due to the fun aesthetic if they played up that cultural heritage.

Something from the Caribbean and/or Central America and Japan would really help fill out the map and probably give some good variety.

 

[DefiantMars]

The biggest weakness I see in the Wayfinder Initiative is that Polystralia may have the area in lore, though that is such a huge stretch of ocean that I'm fine with both existing.

Fortunately I thought of that. The way I wrote it, they're not a governing body. They used to be a Guild. They worked along side the main body of Polystralia. The Neowayfinders of Polystralia mentioned in the Stellar Codex could be easily explained as being an offshoot of the Initiative who left for the Commonwealth. The Wayfinders could have kept building, maintaining, and shipping while Commonwealth prepared for the Seeding, which is why they there late to send out their own colony ships. Their facilities could easily be offshore building hubs.

It fits extremely well as a pioneer in colonizing the oceans, fitting the theme of Rising Tide.

Emphasizing wayfinding and adapting to ocean life makes for a very unique way of adapting to the Great Mistake.

Honestly the faction's background is probably more important than its bonus for design brainstorming, and the Wayfinders have a lot of material to work with for a bonus.

One thing's for sure, I'd like them to make planetfall in the water like the NSA.

I mentioned this elsewhere but I feel I may have overdone it with how many different aspects they have. But that's not really an issue. The focus tends to be determined by the leader and they could basically choose what they want their colonies to hold as paramount.

To throw out an idea in case the old bonus doesn't work in Rising Tide, perhaps they could gain a one-time culture boost for each tile explored - fog of war revealed - and each expedition.

I had considered that, but I'm not sure what it would mean for balance. I mean to new Character Traits (the ones that are Sponsor specific) can be leveled up like the other traits. Meaning it probably has to scale somehow.

I went through 10 iterations before deciding on that one... Maybe a culture bonus after moving an ocean city and maintain the production boost from trade routes? If I could mod, I would just make it.

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I do love the idea of a New Byzantium sponsor, mostly due to the fun aesthetic if they played up that cultural heritage.

Something from the Caribbean and/or Central America and Japan would really help fill out the map and probably give some good variety.

The Byzantium suggestion said it would be Greece, Turkey, the Balkan area, and maybe Italy or parts of it.

So basically we have about 3 ideas/speculations (4 including mine) for naval sponsors and 2 or 3 terrestrial ones.

 

[Galgus]

I agree that it makes sense with them not being a government, and I do like more believable non-governmental organizations as sponsors.

Of course, there is also more than enough room in the Pacific for another sea sponsor there.

And I confess to enjoying the unique gameplay of Polynesia in Civ 5.
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Certainly, any sea associated faction should be able to make planetfall in the water.

I kind of want Polystralia to be able to or for it to be a spacecraft option for other sponsors, though that may not be necessary.

I forget exactly what their leader is like - isn't she an environmentalist and humanitarian at heart?

I seem to remember a conflict over Hutama being "in it for the money."
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Scaling would be difficult with my suggestion, and culture for moving on ocean and production from trade routes could work so long as it doesn't overshadow the NSA's faster sea city movement.
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That would be a fun region to combine, likely unstable in the Great Mistake and and good ground for a unifying order.

 

[DefiantMars]

Of course, there is also more than enough room in the Pacific for another sea sponsor there.

Some scientists call it the Oceanic Hemisphere.

And I confess to enjoying the unique gameplay of Polynesia in Civ 5.

Its neat is just... incorrect. I'm always conflicted about it. I'm happy that they're included but at the same time its an amalgam of pieces from very different cultures. I like to run the Polynesia split to fix that.

Certainly, any sea associated faction should be able to make planetfall in the water.

I kind of want Polystralia to be able to or for it to be a spacecraft option for other sponsors, though that may not be necessary.

Well, there's the forced aquatic landing mode they've been talking about but not showing.

I forget exactly what their leader is like - isn't she an environmentalist and humanitarian at heart? I seem to remember a conflict over Hutama being "in it for the money."

Yup. That's what I wrote anyway. I named her Chief Caretaker Adela Kahananui.

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Scaling would be difficult with my suggestion, and culture for moving on ocean and production from trade routes could work so long as it doesn't overshadow the NSA's faster sea city movement.

It really depends on what the rate is. From the builds we've seen Al Falah's Asabiyyah trait increases the processes rate by 150-175-200%.

The faster movement I think will be really powerful. So I don't think it would overshadow the NSA. Where as getting Culture after moving is incentive to move but without the increased ability to move that you would need to capitalize on such an ability. The Production bonus could help offset the pause in the queue when you want to move the city. If Duncan's Indefatigable is any indication, ocean cities are weaker; which is a plus to the NSA.

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Anyway, on to more speculation!

That would be a fun region to combine, likely unstable in the Great Mistake and and good ground for a unifying order.

I feel like New Byzantium (Space Dromons!) would be pretty compelling in the setting of Rising Tide, but where would its foci lie? larknok1 on the /r/civbeyondearth reddit talked about the regions's "sea-travel/trade/war" background.

As for a Japanese sponsor, I'm not wrong in thinking a science focus would be a natural course, am I?

Space-Canada was also suggested several times and there are some modded sponsors that include them. The Vesperian Confederacy by Colonialist Legacies or the Northern Stellar Dominion by NotSoLoneWolf

 

[Galgus]

Polynesia does suffer from that amalgamation problem, similar to India.

By split, do you mean MC's Polynesian Civilization Pack on the Steam Workshop?

They have some interesting designs, though admittedly I haven't used them yet due to my tendency to sail for some random island in a Communitas map as Polynesia.

That and the fact that I only play Marathon.

Pouakai is one of the great civ designers that ensures compatibility with some of the essential mods Events & Decisions, Cultural Diversity as well as others like Piety and Prestige, which I'm nervous to try due to compatibility with the Reform and Rule policy overhaul mod, at least until it is done.

And sadly they don't seem to support the practically essential Ethnic Units mod.

(I use a lot of mods - that isn't even half the list of what I'd brand essential. Hoping Rising Tide attracts more talented Civ 5 modders, though there are some gems.)
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I would like to see that, though I think being able to land in water was part of the NSA's trait, so it may not be a universal option.
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Good point on the bonus, if the move itself wasn't actually helping it would be like an inefficient city process.
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I'm not sure how to cast a New Byzantium faction, since there are a lot of directions to go.

Is it some kind of peacefully unified area under a new charismatic political movement?

Could it have been an unstable region that some warlord unified and turned to a productive and sustainable focus?

(Probably thinking too much of Caesar's Legion from Fallout: New Vegas there. Very much an evil faction, though the idea wouldn't have to be.)

Science could work well for Japan, though they kind of axed the big science bonuses in the Slavic Federation and Franco-Iberia.

I could see a northern Space Canada faction to fill out the other end of the Americas, though its relative remote nature relative to the Great Mistake and other factions makes it less interesting to me.

It seems like Canada would be afflicted similarly to the US on the coasts with, depending on one's take on the Great Mistake, more fertile land.

 

[DefiantMars]

That would be the very mod. Its just nice to have the clarity of the 4 cultures.

As for the All-Water start, I'm pretty sure the NSA tries to start on water regardless. But there was continual mention of a map-type that makes sponsors planet fall all on water. Hopefully we'll see that.

I'm not sure how to cast a New Byzantium faction, since there are a lot of directions to go.

Is it some kind of peacefully unified area under a new charismatic political movement?

Could it have been an unstable region that some warlord unified and turned to a productive and sustainable focus?

I imagine tensions in that region would be very high, so fighting would definitely occur in some capacity. You are right; the question is how would they band together enough to send a colony ship?

There really isn't a science sponsor in Vanilla BE right now, is there? The closest thing is probably ARC with stealing science or tech.

 

[Gorbles]

Given the inherent advantages to buffing Science in a Science-driven game, I don't imagine there ever would be.

 

[Halbbruder]

Given the inherent advantages to buffing Science in a Science-driven game, I don't imagine there ever would be.

If Firaxis further reforms affinity levels from science to quests (or something else), then it's possible. But otherwise, I agree.

As for speculations on the remaining 2 sponsors, I'm guessing between another Asian region sponsor, another African sponsor or another South/central American sponsor. Or better still, it could be a truly global sponsor in the form of a mega-corporation, like ARC.

I'm pretty certain there will be some sort of sponsor that specializes primarily in diplomacy and in generating more diplomatic capital than the other sponsors.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Or better still, it could be a truly global sponsor in the form of a mega-corporation, like ARC.

I was thinking of a future-UN type faction. Since the faction would be based on the UN, it could take advantage of the new diplo system by getting a bonus to diplo capital or such. I think a diplomacy focused faction would be really cool!

 

[oldag07]

I was thinking of a future-UN type faction. Since the faction would be based on the UN, it could take advantage of the new diplo system by getting a bonus to diplo capital or such. I think a diplomacy focused faction would be really cool!

Obviously you can't do "Peacekeepers" because Alpha Centauri did it. Still, something like it would be cool.

 

[vahouth]

So is it safe to say that the 2 factions that are missing could be scientific and/or diplomatic as a major focus?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Obviously you can't do "Peacekeepers" because Alpha Centauri did it. Still, something like it would be cool.

Story wise, I think it makes sense too. Just as WW1 motived nations to form the League of Nations, WW2 motivated nations to form the UN, the Great Mistake motivated the surviving nations to band together into an even stronger version of the UN. Obviously, you can't call them "peacekeepers", but I am sure there are plenty of other names you could give them, maybe the "Joint Alliance of Nations", or the "New Earth Alliance", or the "Commonwealth of Nations".

 

[DefiantMars]

I meant that even in terms of theme and background there is not really a scientific orientation. In terms of game balance I understand and in the context of the setting. Sponsors delve into technologies that we 21st century earthlings only imagined; I suppose in a way that every Sponsor wants to push the boundaries.

 

[Galgus]

Perhaps there could be a fusion of a diplomatic UN faction and a science faction.

On unrelated note, I wonder if "The Golfo Confederacy" is a better name for my previous idea than the mouthful that is "The Meso-Carribean Confederacy."

(Golfo is Spannish and Portugese for Gulf.)

Anyway, this is my attempted write-up for the UN diplomatic/ science faction.

Spoiler :

The Mender Foundation

Led by Corvus Adler.

Sponsor Bonus - Humanitarian Research

Start with a free technology.

+1 Diplomatic Capital per turn for every five technologies researched.

Place of Origin

In times of strife, many will turn to a leader or group promising solutions. This is how the Mender Foundation came to the height of its influence. The foundation was formed by the United Nations to address the humanitarian refugee crisis and the environmental damage of the Great Mistake. Though the UN itself fell apart as nations turned inward to address their own problems, the Mender Foundation continued to receive funding and work with other relief efforts across the globe. The foundation's survival of the loss of UN funding can primarily be attributed to its pragmatic goals and its reputation for getting results with sparse resources. This global presence laid the bedrock for the political power the foundation would one day wield.

Unification

The challenges left by the Great Mistake's legacy worsened after the heyday of the seeding, and humanitarian initiatives grew in importance. This, alongside the foundation's long reputation of efficiency in aid, made them increasingly important in local and international politics. While they held no formal authority, opposition to Mender projects came to be a risky venture politically in all but the most stalwart regions. Leveraging this popular support, the foundation revived council of nations meetings in the style of the old UN to form coordinated responses to global crises. In time, the foundation succeeded the United Nations in role in spirit, but with far more international grassroots support.

The Last Seeding

In the last decades before the Inflection Point, support arose among the remnants of the world's pro-seeding parties for one last seeding project. It was to be the final seeding effort from Earth to the unknown, before it was no longer possible. Public opinion was divided on the great cost of the program, but the charismatic and withdrawn Corvus Adler, a popular aid program executive, gathered a coalition strong enough to support it. He claimed that humanity must share what they have learned among the other colonists of the stars to ensure a brighter future for all. Thus the Mender Foundation launched the last, and most advanced, seeding vessel to leave Earth.

 

[Red Menace]

So is it safe to say that the 2 factions that are missing could be scientific and/or diplomatic as a major focus?

Diplomatic based is almost certain given Firaxes loves to base the new factions on new mechanics [such as the Celts Morocco and most recently the NSA] as for the scientific we will just have to wait and see

 

[Ryika]

Why another Scientific Sponsor? Al Falah already fills that spot.

 

[DefiantMars]

Why another Scientific Sponsor? Al Falah already fills that spot.

Fair point, Ryika. Fair point.

 

[Halbbruder]

Why another Scientific Sponsor? Al Falah already fills that spot.

Well, indirectly speaking, yes, she is. But she has to be a production powerhouse so they'd be yearning for Industry to maximize their flexibility.

I don't mind a science sponsor so long as it isn't gamebreaking in a sense like civ 5's Babylon or Korea. Bonus science from certain tile resources (especially in the sea) seems decent enough.

Maybe another military sponsor could be added. Or even another sea sponsor like Northern Sea alliance, but one that has a UA strengthening their navy, either like civ 5's Ottomans or England. It would be like Brazilia on water and it would also compete with NSA for sea territory.