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(Rising Tide) No speculation on Hybrid Affinities and New sponsors?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Metecury, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. Gritf

    Gritf Chieftain

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    They use the surplus energy to spam acadamies and some biowells all around their cities to speed up their science.
     
  2. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    If you are swimming in energy, you don't have enough Academies. :D
    I think even in decent locations (with lots of rivers and some early energy ressources) you will usually break even in terms of energy income during the midgame, so grabbing Photsystems is a necessity in some games. Although I'd argue that Biology can be a valid alternative for non-harmony affinities (if you actually have enough coastal cities with Algae, like in the example below).

    Your cities should look like this:
    (...except that's actually too few Academies. Ideally I'd have like 3-4 more per city.)
     
  3. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    You only have 5 workers? Lol, what a noob! :D
     
  4. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    I actually had 8, but disbanded 3 of them after the majority of the Academies was done.
    Also took me a while to notice that the Mindflower was available on Affinity 13, not 18. I blame your mod. :p
     
  5. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Of course it's my mod... and not the fact that you just have no idea how to play the game. Pfft. :D
    Disbanding Workers instead of creating Manufactories... what a noob!
     
  6. Halbbruder

    Halbbruder Prince

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    Um, no they shouldn't. While academies are great, your energy per turn is all gone and all it takes is for someone to invade you. Once you build your forces, you'll be in the red. You haven't got a single generator up either and your cities are too closely spaced. Being a SP game, there's nothing to worry about of course in terms of invasions. :p But in MP, you'd be caught out eventually.

    I would have had half as many academies, some more generators and some more biowells instead. Something like 35% biowells, 35% generators and 30% academies. You also haven't got the tech that increases biowell food and culture by 1 each. At least you should have put generators on all river tiles. You need energy stockpiled as insurance for any attacks, then you rushbuy an army and defences if something goes wrong. You've also taken the industry tree so you've obviously got some energy from interest. You would have more if you saved up more and not spent it all on academies.
     
  7. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Sorry, but that's nonsense when we're talking about quick and efficient victories. It may work for you personally, but when we're talking about "objectively good"... just no.

    With some experience you know when you're in danger of being attacked or not and if done properly, at the time of the game you're in danger of being attacked without noticing it early enough your units are already superior to those that the AI has anyway. Those 4 Soldiers and 3 Air Units that he has easily hold back an AI-Attack even on Apollo. (Well, maybe not at that turn, but at that turn he should have won already anyway. :p)

    And stockpiling energy is generally a horrible thing to do, because that energy could have been used to get ahead further, instead you're basically holding yourself back and by that you're creating the chance to be attacked by an AI in the first place. Especially when you're also using generators, one of the worst improvements in the whole game.
     
  8. Red Menace

    Red Menace Prepare to be Menaced

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    stop asking questions.
    too me it looks like you're so focused on "quick and efficient victories" you forgot to play the game, you know the reason people play video games is to have FUN.
    why are they the worst? i dont build alot of them but they dont seem like the WORST, Arrays seem much worse.

    is it really that easy?
     
  9. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Don't worry, if I didn't enjoy trying to win quickly and efficiently, then I wouldn't do it. ;)

    I didn't write THE worst, I wrote "one of the worst". (I'd say THE worst is probably the dome, just because of the way Culture plays out at the moment) The reason I see them as "one of the worst" tile improvements is simple: They're outclassed by simple farms in 97% of the time. The only situation where I'd ever recommend building some of them is if early on the area has a lot of food but very low energy - just so one can rush-buy a few recyclers for new cities.

    But other than that Tile Improvements are the best way of "exchanging energy into more useful stuff", using them to get more energy and then using that extra energy for extremely inefficient exchanges (like rushbuying non-recycler buildings) is always a loss.

    If you're ahead in Affinity? Yes. ^^ Especially with Harmony - fortify 3 soldier units with 1 tile between them and then use Air units to slowly decimate the invading army while the AI either suicides itself into extremely high-defense units or runs around like a headless chicken.

    It's different in MP obviously, but that's not what GAGA Extrem was talking about.
     
  10. aguliondew

    aguliondew Prince

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    In terms of value production>science>food with energy/culture being the lowest value. Farms are better than generator, once you always get the purity affinity tech for it. I am just glad that firaxis is changing some of the tile improvements values (nodes giving more energy and miasma decreasing energy), since I never get nodes, arrays or domes.

    Yea that's the problem when I play on Apollo I tend to be behind on affinity until the end. So I value defensive building more then units if I play at that difficult. With hybrid affinities, playing ARC and stealing techs will be very interesting.
     
  11. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    Sorry, I hadn't noticed that we were talking about MP.

    I am playing Soyuz with turn 1 landings, not Apollo. Not because Apollo is too hard, but rather because it is way too tedious for my taste. So the "real" difficulty level is somewhere inbetween the two.
    And, yes, on that difficulty level these 7 units are enough to hold of an AI. Isolated harmony soldiers are very tough, add Miasma and you go up to 100-ish combat strength. If the pressure would rise, I could get another 5 units within 5-6 turns. Also take note that I haven't launched any Solar Satellites, nor have I gotten Biology. So there is an extra 80 energy or so available if necessary.

    As for Biowells and Generators, Biowells are only useful if your cities need more food (these don't, they have enough basic food tiles) or if you have a lot of forest (they are actually good on forest hills). Generators are terrible for Harmony. Getting the tech(s) for improved Biowells is pointless, it slows down the win timer by 10-15 turns. In terms of city spacing, the distance itself is fine, the problem is more about the coastline. But settling there was more or less the only option I had, since stations blocked the W and NW part of my spawn and I had to fend of two AIs in the E and N.

    Overall that was a very bad game with a sub-par starting location and poor decision making. But I think it's still good enough to showcase the importance of Academies in SP.
     
  12. Red Menace

    Red Menace Prepare to be Menaced

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    stop asking questions.
    Good im not opposed to different play styles, its just annoying to me when people say that there is only one way to play. personally i could never just spam Academies till victory just to boring for my taste.
    they are?:woohoo: at last, i cant stand how weak some of the improvements are. such as Nodes
    My brother has played harmony before and got mad strength units, but i prefer Supremacy i love the insane flanking/adjacency, like Redeemer's with every flanking bonus
    [i use phasal Transporters on Firaxite around enemy territory to teleport them and pillage everything]
     
  13. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Good that I never said that then. ;)

    Of course there are tons of ways to play the game and obviously "trying to win fast and efficiently" is just one of them. For the individual every way of playing the game is equally valid, but when things are measured as "Is this good?", then of course they have to be measured by how good they are at pushing you to the default goal of a game.

    Otherwise "not building any improvements" would be just as "good" as "building good improvements".
     
  14. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars King

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    So on the matter of the Hybrid units, we've only see nine names:
    • Aquilon
    • Architect
    • Autosled
    • Drone Cage
    • Geliopod
    • Golem
    • Immortal
    • Nanohive
    • Throne

    In the various E3 footage, we were assured that Hybrids do indeed have top level units on par (level wise) with the Xeno Titan, LEV Destroyer, and ANGEL. Does this mean that the hybrids only get 2 unique units and their "ultimate unit" or are they not in the builds we've seen.

    I have a feeling that the former is correct and there may only be 3 units for each Hybrid. If that is indeed the case the question that I must ask is: which of the 9 are the 3 Ultimate units?
     
  15. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    I play the way I feel is fun and I find using more of the features available fun, but when there's something that's clearly better than everything, there's only so much I can ignore in favor of role-playing.

    As for nodes being week, I was fine with them as medic improvements, building one or two per city, adjacent to the city. If it healed units and was a good yield you'd have the every where.
     
  16. Red Menace

    Red Menace Prepare to be Menaced

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    stop asking questions.
    Aye, indeed. lol
    this is true but what should be the standard? i dont think spamming academies is a good standard.
    what is the "Throne"? cant wait to see more hybrids.
     
  17. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    I don't see that the hybrids need as many unique units, because they'll also have access to the unique units of two other affinities. They only need high ranking units because those are the ranks they can't reach by splitting focus.
     
  18. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    "standard" in what sense?

    They seem to be the "ideal" thing to use right now, as they were used in the fastest peaceful victories that are known (post-1.2 that's ~turn 200 victories with All-Standard settings), so if the question is "What's the best strategy to win fast?", then "Spam Academies!" is certainly the most appropriate answer.

    It's probably not the "most fun" or "most interesting" thing to do for most people, but that's a completely different question.

    back @topic:
    I actually think I remember that they said a while ago that Rising Tide would bring "not weapons of mass destruction, but strong endgame units" or something along that lines. Am I just misremembering that, or can somebody confirm?
     
  19. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    Yes, I remember that too. Perhaps it was a reference to late game hybrid units, or perhaps there are other late game generic units that have not been revealed yet?
     
  20. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars King

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    I have no idea. But I do know that Throne is a classification of angel in Judeo-Christian tradition. (Along with a whole bunch of other -ims). It makes me think that it will be a part Supremacy unit due to the spiritual/religious motif of their units.

    That is a very good point, though in some ways I feel that reduces the "Hybrids are their own solutions" statement that Firaxis made.

    I believe so, Ryika. And I also remember hearing something that can be paraphrased to crazy-sci-fi-theme-ultimate-units. I don't remember what video/s that was. (There were a number of them)
     

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