River-Mountain-Hill trilemma

[Sagax]

In some of my games I encounter this kind of spot when settling a new city: a hill, a river and a mountain are located in a way that you can only use two of them for their full benefit. This means:

1. You can settle on the hill adjacent to the river, but the mountain will be 1 tile away, thus denying the Observatory.
2. You can settle on the hill adjacent to the mountain, but the river will not be next to the city, thus denying all river-based buildings.
3. You can settle next to both river and mountain, but on a flat tile with lower production.

Assuming this is the 3rd-4th city and your choice won't affect your reach to crucial resources, where would you pop the Settler?

 

[Silverman6083]

Settle next to river & mountain easily. You'll make up that production when you get windmills & the science & growth easily makes up for lack of early production.

 

[GoStu]

Flat tile with river and mountain, no question. On flat terrain you can build or buy a windmill, which makes up for the lost hammer from the hill.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

it doesn't matter, obs in non capital is overrated

 

[Syailendra]

the one that is more defensible. Hill and mountain. For 3rd or 4th city you should be able to send caravans for food easily, thus making riverside less needed.

 

[joncnunn]

My own priority order between those three if the site wouldn't interfere with any other city:

#1 River (second granary)
#2 Mountain (observatory)
#3 Hill (extra hammer)

 

[b7fanatix]

River with Hill, it's the most defensible, and gets you good early hammers.

Being on a hill penalises attackers from all directions, it also gives your (range promoted?) ranged unit line of sight to shoot out to the maximum range of it's weapon, where it might otherwise be blanketed by hills.

The river also forces 50% or more of the attackers to fight with an amphib penalty.

 

[Silverman6083]

it doesn't matter, obs in non capital is overrated

Is the National College overrated aswell?

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Is the National College overrated aswell?

non capital

 

[Gamewizard]

it doesn't matter, obs in non capital is overrated

I disagree...50% science in any good food city is strong...maintenance free as well.

 

[Teproc]

I would generally settle on the river hill, because hill > mountain, but generally the tiebreaker in those situations is what would you get/miss in your 3rd ring.

 

[zukenft]

if it's the 3rd or 4th city, river + mountains. you can make up for the lost production with cargo ships. And I'm guessing you're not settling near an enemy, so hills defence is no matter.

 

[Redaxe]

If its 3rd or 4th city probably river/mountain. Sure I miss an early hammer from a hill but a watermill will soon give it back and an observatory is always good.

 

[shaglio]

Is it too late to add a poll to this thread? It seems like the responses have varied between all three options.

 

[Memoryjar]

Depends of the game, the goal and other factors.
All thing being equal :
1/ Hill river.
2/ Flat river mountain.
3/ Hill mountain.

 

[Sagax]

Thanks for replies! Yes, I lean toward river-mountain, but usually my 3rd city is founded relatively early when there are more important techs to get than astronomy. So I wonder whether it will really pay off in comparison with the early production for pumping early units and buildings.

Is it too late to add a poll to this thread? It seems like the responses have varied between all three options.

I`m a newbie with forum tools. Is it possible to add a poll after the thread is created?

 

[civ54lyfe]

if it were me i would have to take into account the point in the game that i'm founding this city, and if i'm doing the standard 3-city Tradition turtle game vs. Liberty/Tradition/Honor mix, and if my religion (if applicable) has any growth/food beliefs at all, and if i have (or can) ally with 2 or more Maritime CS's.

if the answers to the above are mostly not-finished-Tradition and dont-have-growth/food-things, i wouldn't care about being by the Mountain at all. but otherwise i'd do the Mountain/Grassland settle.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Poll added.

 

[Asklepios]

I would say its a matter of playstyles, rather than being clear cut, but I'd personally favour hill/river.

Hills I find to be my most desirable feature (short of marble for first city), as the early production boost multiplies in advantage over the game.
Rivers are great in general, but less important to me than hills. While I like the stuff that river gets you, its not universally important to every game I play.
Mountains, I find I do like an Observatory in a dedicated science city, but the tech required for it is too far off my usual tech path that I acquire it very late. That said, if the above choice also said "and lots of nearby jungles", then I'd never ever turn down the mountainside spot.

 

[Merciorum]

Depends on the situation but ordinarily river-hill.