900 gold from a great merchant? 3x900 = 2700 gold? This is normal speed.
RLC#2. The Immortal Gandhi.
- Thread starter pigswill
- Start date
900 gold from a great merchant? 3x900 = 2700 gold? This is normal speed.
TiglathPileser
Warlord
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- Nov 25, 2010
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- 143
Temple of Artemis should be built in time and gives 1300 if I am not mistaken? It might be 1100. Still, 3300 gold should be enough.
vranasm
Deity
it would be most probably 1100 in Toa city.
But it's a bit too forward...we don't even know number of neighbors, if rush is even on table etc etc.
Worth mentioning, but a bit too in advance.
But it's a bit too forward...we don't even know number of neighbors, if rush is even on table etc etc.
Worth mentioning, but a bit too in advance.
pigswill
fly (one day)
You're probably thinking of a recent avatar of the immortal Gandhi.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
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- 868
Some thoughts:
I would go Ag->BW->TW->AH
It is important to get AH before settling first city because otherwise it would need to use the cap's only food to grow = not good. (there is also an other grass cow visible)
Only 1 food special in BFC, so not a strong capital. Many forests-> a math bulb could give lots of hammers early, and fast expansion after currency. Oracling currency would be a strong move here, and after that you should expand like crazy (depending on neighbours)
The cap will be able to pop the scientist at size 6. (don't forget to prechop into Oracle)
I would go Ag->BW->TW->AH
It is important to get AH before settling first city because otherwise it would need to use the cap's only food to grow = not good. (there is also an other grass cow visible)
Only 1 food special in BFC, so not a strong capital. Many forests-> a math bulb could give lots of hammers early, and fast expansion after currency. Oracling currency would be a strong move here, and after that you should expand like crazy (depending on neighbours)
The cap will be able to pop the scientist at size 6. (don't forget to prechop into Oracle)
Yep it is 1100 gold with TOA. The AI still have to build the wonder and it still needs to be built by an AI you can reach. Nothing is ever straight forward on this game.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Oh I'd happily agree with that claim from back in the day. Things don't change.
But first they gotta happen, which is what I was doubting in the first place
Early Bureaucracy helps getting a tremendous tech lead. Hammer bonuses can mean further wonder-building. Then there are Macemen, which can conquer ennemy lands with almost no losses. Appealing opportunities all around, I won't question any of them.
It was awkward from me to mention some drawbacks of Oracle -> CS right after doubting the likeliness of it even happening. Poor wording on my part, sorry for that.
Last time I saw the move showcased was, I believe, by Grasshopa in a De Gaulle Immortal University. I seem to recall he paid a serious toll on the expansion even though overall he probably faired well.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Oracle>CS would certainly be a first for me and one to consider for the near future. We need to check out the neighborhood before making decisions however. I'll send the warrior north while studying crop husbandry as a starting point.
obsolete
Deity
Gave this one a quick spin. Spent 500 years doing nothing but experimenting with suicides etc. against an opponent. Yup, I was bored.
Two reasons I hate fractal. Not only are they utterly boring, but some leaders will ALWAYS end up getting screwed on these maps. At least Pangae has some more balance and more unpredictability.
Two reasons I hate fractal. Not only are they utterly boring, but some leaders will ALWAYS end up getting screwed on these maps. At least Pangae has some more balance and more unpredictability.
Spoiler :
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
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- 868
Gave this one a quick spin. Spent 500 years doing nothing but experimenting with suicides etc. against an opponent. Yup, I was bored.
Two reasons I hate fractal. Not only are they utterly boring, but some leaders will ALWAYS end up getting screwed on these maps. At least Pangae has some more balance and more unpredictability.
Spoiler :
lib before currency?
pigswill
fly (one day)
Played 9 turns up to the discovery of agriculture.
Warrior headed north then east.
Met Pericles's scout on T6 coming from N/NE.
Nothing else happened.
No seafood to the south unless lurking off the coast of the apparently jungled southern island.
Potential site up the river. Pigs, FP, 3PH for small production and wine for later happiness. Will need a border pop to connect to Delhi but at least we start with myst.
Clam city still looks appealing but would obviously need AH and fishing.
I've provisionally started BW but no beakers invested yet. I'm thinking that we won't need AH for Delhi and we've still got to finish worker and grow to pop3+ before thinking about a second city. Chopping out some of the forest will speed up everything, maybe even a second worker.
Haven't done any fiendish calculations yet to try optimising the start.
If we're going for Oracle CS then we'll need early library for maths bulb which requires one of AH, pottery or priesthood, we'd also need CoL . CoL slingshot is much easier for sure.
Warrior headed north then east.
Met Pericles's scout on T6 coming from N/NE.
Nothing else happened.
No seafood to the south unless lurking off the coast of the apparently jungled southern island.
Potential site up the river. Pigs, FP, 3PH for small production and wine for later happiness. Will need a border pop to connect to Delhi but at least we start with myst.
Clam city still looks appealing but would obviously need AH and fishing.
I've provisionally started BW but no beakers invested yet. I'm thinking that we won't need AH for Delhi and we've still got to finish worker and grow to pop3+ before thinking about a second city. Chopping out some of the forest will speed up everything, maybe even a second worker.
Haven't done any fiendish calculations yet to try optimising the start.
If we're going for Oracle CS then we'll need early library for maths bulb which requires one of AH, pottery or priesthood, we'd also need CoL . CoL slingshot is much easier for sure.
vranasm
Deity
hmm AH looks very viable with this start.
you either could go for the pigs spot north, which looks good or west for grass cows
For now I think I would play up to BW which leaves most options open with the aim of city 2 on the northern pigs.
The gems should help greatly with the economy strain on start.
One thing I am not sure is going ah->med->ph->writing or ah->writing->med->ph then col while waiting for math and oracle finished.
not sure if it is in a spirit of rlc to make some deeper calculations with spreadsheet, but it most probably would be worth to check commerce outputs etc and timing of library and running scientists.
you won't need road for city 2 after border pop and can start monument with whipping size 2.
with the amount of trees it's questionable if size 3 build another worker and chop settler out and couple more.
with the plans of bulbing math it is a bit counterintuitive though...to chop at 20 hammers if you plan to bulb math.
you either could go for the pigs spot north, which looks good or west for grass cows
For now I think I would play up to BW which leaves most options open with the aim of city 2 on the northern pigs.
The gems should help greatly with the economy strain on start.
One thing I am not sure is going ah->med->ph->writing or ah->writing->med->ph then col while waiting for math and oracle finished.
not sure if it is in a spirit of rlc to make some deeper calculations with spreadsheet, but it most probably would be worth to check commerce outputs etc and timing of library and running scientists.
you won't need road for city 2 after border pop and can start monument with whipping size 2.
with the amount of trees it's questionable if size 3 build another worker and chop settler out and couple more.
with the plans of bulbing math it is a bit counterintuitive though...to chop at 20 hammers if you plan to bulb math.
pigswill
fly (one day)
The drawback of using spreadsheets is not so much the 'spirit of RLC' (or even the ghost of ALC past) but rather I don't know how to use one. Did I ever mention I'm almost computer illiterate (a drawback of being 50+ 
and not mathematically minded).
Other crazy Oracle slings to throw into the mix:
Feudalism via monarchy.
Theology via writing, mono.
MC. Build forge for GE, rush pyramids or bulb machinery.
and not mathematically minded).Other crazy Oracle slings to throw into the mix:
Feudalism via monarchy.
Theology via writing, mono.
MC. Build forge for GE, rush pyramids or bulb machinery.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
If he decides to bulb math and go for oracling CS, I think BW->AH->writing->med->ph->CoL is superior because having a library up and running ASAP is important. Teching writing just before CoL would mean a couple turns before getting library up, and slower teching of med and ph. The difference might be quite a few turns on research, since cap has palace (8
)+2 riverside gems(14)+city tile(1)+riverside FP(1)+trade route(1) = 25 in capitalabout 4
from city 2at 100% slider without library it is 29
at 100% slider+library+2 scientists it is 4+(25+6)*1.25=42.75
Quite a big difference, at least 2-3 turns. Not to mention faster math bulb and thus more early hammers.
Edit: Gandhi is philo so don't feel bad for "wasting" a scientist on math. You will have enough of them anyway.
Mec AntiKythera
King
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- Sep 24, 2010
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- 980
I liked the warrior move and the SiP and I like the surf and turf spot as well, just the place that caught my eye. Too bad it isn't claiming more territory, oh well. Not sure how to use the two gems. I just lost a game with 2 gold (after 2 tums moving the settler) so I am curious to see what you do.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Me too!
An idea I was toying with was going cultural to make use of Gandhi's cheap temples. For religions I was thinking of something simple like Oracle>Col for confucianism, running priest with Oracle for GProphet while researching up to mono and bulb theo with the Prophet while running a couple of sceintists elsewhere for the philo bulb.
An idea I was toying with was going cultural to make use of Gandhi's cheap temples. For religions I was thinking of something simple like Oracle>Col for confucianism, running priest with Oracle for GProphet while researching up to mono and bulb theo with the Prophet while running a couple of sceintists elsewhere for the philo bulb.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Its all well and good having grand strategies, getting established and expanding without being overrun by barbs or crashing the economy is just as important at the moment.
I played up to BW, we're now at T25 (3000bc).
We've got a worker and an exploring warrior, second warrior is still being built.
Worker has improved the rice and the grassland gems, getting ready to improve the hill gems which will take another 5 turns.
Delhi is generating +6F, 2H, 16bpt working rice, grass gems and FP. Pop 3, grows to pop 4 in 5 turns, warrior completes in 3 turns.
Our exploring warrior has survived his journey east:
This is where it starts getting tricky.
We have copper
. A city where the lion is standing would be pretty good long term but misses the stone. We could split the land into two weaker cities (copper/cow +wheat/stone).
The northern river site is also ok and doesn't need roads immediately.
Delhi pops borders in 25 turns which puts copper inside its borders. Building a settler to nab copper would take about 10 turns, depending on where its located we either get copper in first ring or build monument and wait 10 turns for borders to pop which probably wouldn't be any faster than waiting for Delhi's borders. We would need to fit in wheel of course.
We haven't met anyone else yet but T25 is still far too early to conclude we're semi isolated with Peri. No sign of Peri's borders yet but they can't be too far judging from how early we met his scout.
Delhi is ok for food, obviously commerce rich but hammer poor, hilly gems will double hammer output to 4 hpt. Its ok(ish) for settlers/workers but very slow for warriors.
Slavery is available but I haven't switched yet. 20H chopping is also available.
So lots of questions:
How soon will barbs start appearing in numbers?
How many spawn busters and where to put them?
Where do we put city#2?
Do we proceed with AH>writing>med>PH? Anything we should be fitting into that research sequence?
I'll add the save in case anyone wants to look in more detail.
I played up to BW, we're now at T25 (3000bc).
We've got a worker and an exploring warrior, second warrior is still being built.
Worker has improved the rice and the grassland gems, getting ready to improve the hill gems which will take another 5 turns.
Delhi is generating +6F, 2H, 16bpt working rice, grass gems and FP. Pop 3, grows to pop 4 in 5 turns, warrior completes in 3 turns.
Our exploring warrior has survived his journey east:
This is where it starts getting tricky.
We have copper
. A city where the lion is standing would be pretty good long term but misses the stone. We could split the land into two weaker cities (copper/cow +wheat/stone).The northern river site is also ok and doesn't need roads immediately.
Delhi pops borders in 25 turns which puts copper inside its borders. Building a settler to nab copper would take about 10 turns, depending on where its located we either get copper in first ring or build monument and wait 10 turns for borders to pop which probably wouldn't be any faster than waiting for Delhi's borders. We would need to fit in wheel of course.
We haven't met anyone else yet but T25 is still far too early to conclude we're semi isolated with Peri. No sign of Peri's borders yet but they can't be too far judging from how early we met his scout.
Delhi is ok for food, obviously commerce rich but hammer poor, hilly gems will double hammer output to 4 hpt. Its ok(ish) for settlers/workers but very slow for warriors.
Slavery is available but I haven't switched yet. 20H chopping is also available.
So lots of questions:
How soon will barbs start appearing in numbers?
How many spawn busters and where to put them?
Where do we put city#2?
Do we proceed with AH>writing>med>PH? Anything we should be fitting into that research sequence?
I'll add the save in case anyone wants to look in more detail.
vranasm
Deity
looks like 2 more warriors will suffice for spawnbusting and thus going for the pigs as city 2 is still most probably best plan.
don't forget that at size 3, 4 you don't need MP in capital so the new warrior can go spawnbust somewhere.
don't forget that at size 3, 4 you don't need MP in capital so the new warrior can go spawnbust somewhere.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
I would chop the northern riverside grass hill for 20h into settler (if the worker has time, you can chop the other riverside grass hill). It would be a nice tile when mined and give some hammers and an alternative to working the soon-to-be-farmed FP.
I would start the settler after this warrior, but decide the position only after AH is in: there is a good chance that you will pop horses somewhere on those plains. For second city, I would definitely look for a high food/high prod city. The cap is hammer and food poor for now (will be very nice after growing big and mined grass hills+chops), so you will need a secondary settler/worker pump in the early game. I agree with Vranasm that the pig city looks best for now.
Have you decided about oracle free tech? I think CS is pretty doable. You will have a commerce powerhouse once library is ready: see my previous post. Whatever you choose, it is important to grow your cap to size 6, so until then make only limited number of workers/settlers there. (I'm sure you know this trick, but try putting 1 or 2 chops into settler/worker instead of other things, so the food will be used for growth)
Switching into slavery can wait IMO.
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