Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by pigswill, Aug 31, 2012.
he is spiritual...so don't see many benefits of delaying, but it can be delayed.
Oh. Totally forgot that
First, I like all the questions, I hope we get some good discussion going in response.
As far as the second city goes, the pig site claims the most land of the sites I see. I wonder what else is up there. I like the Wheat/Copper/Cow site (on the forest) and the western surf and turf as well. Unless you have specific plans for the stone I wouldn't worry about it right now.
Do you dare to choose for a Cultural victory before you know who else is out there? In my experience Monte will find my island home, and drop a bunch of cavalry there while I am building Temples with the research turned off if he is anywhere on the map. I like the idea of a culture game, there have not been many of those and zero early culture games if I recall correctly. Seems like a good response to the leader and the map in this case.
If capital is only going to spit out one settler then maybe city #2 should be cowriceclam: Low maintain S/W pump, all three food in first ring, and two hill chops would go to it (for workboat?) instead of cap.
he has no fishing and I doubt pigs will have enough time to tech it before Oracle slingshot.
It is looking like the east will be the third or fourth city, so we need to add the wheel (after writing?) with a view to hooking the copper when the border pops.
Need to complete wheel within 21 turns and build a couple of roads connecting copper while waiting for border pop (edit:19 turns coz there's three tiles to road unless we can manage to release 2 workers to speed up the roadworks) then mine copper. I'm not sure what happens to research times once second gems are worked, likely to improve.
Cowclam is not the best second city imo because capital needs the rice as its only food tile and clams will need fishing (and WB). It will also need roads or sailing for TR. Pighill city gets pigs and FP before border pop (for faster monument) and just a border pop for TR.
I'm thinking that the next builds will be 2 warriors, worker and settler but I'm not sure about worker>settler or settler>worker.
If Pigswill does not whip (if he hires scientists?), then Slavery might just delay the Oracle race.
Being SPI allows to delay the switch without any harm, until whipping is needed.
Do you have a clearcut Oracle target by now? You should, as it would affect build orders, worker use, well... most things.
In any case, Delhi should probably grow to size4 now, so it can work both gem mines and the floodplains (helps further growth).
@affect most things:
Specifically, whether and how you get Maths + whether and how you hire scientists (production loss) affects the value of your chops. Hence the interest of Worker2 before settler.
+ whether or not you'll need forests for a military burst (but you've got enough forests not to worry about that too much).
I'm pretty clear that I'm going for a relatively safe Oracle>CoL. Research AH> writing> wheel> med> PH. I've seen Oracle go at 1720bc at Prince and seen it left until 600ad on emperor.
I'm still tempted by the idea of founding Confu, Tao and Christianity and going cultural but it all depends on who's around (Play the Map!!).
However the next bunch of turns is fairly straightforwards apart from trying to work out the micro of worker or settler first and also growing to pop 4 on warriors or pop 5. My inclination is to grow to pop 4 then start settler but I haven't worked it out in detail and this could be sub-optimal.
then wait with writing after PH and tech writing while building Oracle. It's better that way
You want writing before PH yet you are worried about losing Oracle??? If you are that worried tech writing after PH so you can get hammers into Oracle.
You will want to get out your 2nd/3rd city. At size 4 it will allow you to work both gems. You can do some chops to speed up the settler. Perhaps avoid putting Oracle in a city that will dilute the GP generation. You want a GS farm?
No real spoilers.
I agree with the others, since you are not bulbing maths, there is really no need to tech writing for now.
You are all quite right and I am a silly-billy.
Not only that but AH and PH are 2 pre-reqs for writing which makes it that bit faster to research.
I've played another 7 turns up to discovery of AH. No sign of horses yet, oh well, I shouldn't be so greedy .
Med and PH next (7-8 turns depending on beaker overflow)
I've completed warriors 2 and 3 which have gone to risk their lives against vile barbarian spawns and I'm still wondering what to build next. Delhi has grown to pop 4, working rice, 2 gems and unimproved FP. An important (and slightly unusual) factor is that Delhi has 16 forests in BFC, even at 20 hammers/chop that's still a lot of bonus hammers which makes me think that chopping out a second worker wouldn't slow the settler too much. I still need to figure out the ratio between tile improvements (FP farm, Ghill mine) and chops. 3 chops in total would get me a worker and a settler in 11 turns (maybe 10 turns depending on tile improvements).
Still need to work out how urgently I'll need copper which determines whether I go for wheel before or after writing. On a vaguely related subject how many tiles does a city spawnbust?
Delhi pops borders in another 18 turns which should connect pighill city even without a monument.
Sorry if this is slightly rambling but I'm a bit tired . Probably too tired to play this any further tonight.
When would you get your second city out if you chop the worker now?? 3-5 turns for worker. Plus another 4-6 turns for a settler with a double chop? So a 2300-2480bc second city at best? You will want to build the oracle sooner or later too.
So worker/settler or settler/worker?
Having the second worker sooner might speed up the third settler. On flip side getting the copper sooner would be useful for barb defences.
A city only "fogbusts", so no barb unit and no barb city can spawn in the unfogged area around the city. (So it's easy: no barbs will spawn on a tile that you can see) It usually means that everything within the culture borders and every adjacent tile is fogbusted. If you have hills or peaks in your borders, there might be some more tiles fogbusted in that direction.
Continuing from AH in 2720 I was looking around the save and noticed to my surprise that Hinduism hadn't been founded back in 3400bc as usually happens. Given that I needed either poly or med for PH I thought I'd give poly a whirl, just in case. Look what happened next:
Never seen that before . Maybe I can go all cultural without diverting to theology .
With the added culture borders popped in 2360, no need for a monument in Bombay after all .
Build wise went worker>settler, mined Ghill and chopped a couple of forests into a settler. Settler got built 2280 and Delhi started on Oracle (21 turns!). Bombay got founded in 2200 and started on a warrior, to be swopped to a worker on reaching pop2.
Tech went PH (2360), wheel (2200) and writing (2000). Started on fishing but running some cash first for binary research.
Peri is indeed to the north east (confirmed by a border pop).
Workers stayed around Delhi, a couple of chops for Oracle before roading and mining copper.
In 2000bc Toku appeared in the form of a WB from the unknown west.
Finally in 1840 Oracle got completed. We won the race !
Took CoL as our prize and as a bonus Confucianism was founded in Bombay. Free culture .
I stopped after getting Orcle in 1840bc. Some good things (Oracle, 2 religions, copper on line) and lots of things in need of improvement. Only two cities so far and behind the clock on expansion. Need a settler asap for copper/cow/wheat before Peri pinches the spot. Urgently need to explore. I've just opened borders with Peri and sent the confu miss to look around, hopefully to discover a coastal route to Greece for trade routes and maybe even convert Peri to Confu.
However I need to explore further, maybe an axe heading west, maybe exploring with WB/galley once I've settled cowclamcity.
Here's a quick look at Delhi:
Not working unimproved tiles atm nd with Oracle completed I reckon its time to crack the whip. Double whip settler, build axe while regrowing to pop 4, double whip settler with maybe a chop or two to speed things up.
Personally I would think whipping away gems is crime.
Its an opportunity cost, lost income depends on how long it takes to regrow from pop 2 to 3 (or pop 4 to 5 before second whip).
What is exact opportunity you would miss by like growing one pop up and whipping 6>4 and so on?
Opportunity is that Peri might beat us to coppercowheatcity. Clamcow is less of a priority, we can whip from 5>3 and still work rice and 2gems so that's pretty straightforwards (though I would have to look at regrowth time working PHfarm instead of hillgems).
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