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RLC#2. The Immortal Gandhi.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by pigswill, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Don't ask me about good play ;). I leave that to the immortal deities :worship:.

    But seriously putting the city there allows me to grab food tiles and resources with three cities rather than four.
     
  2. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Been thinking about what to do next and I have a bit of a plan:

    Keep exploring with boats, spawnbust with axes. Research currency.

    Delhi: settler (4T)>research.
    Bombay: run 3 sci, slow build axe.
    Vijay: settler (2T)>warrior>research.
    Patali: WB>warrior>research>worker at happy cap.

    However I'm debating what to do about cities. I'm concerned about Peri pinching iron so one option would be:



    It would have oasis for food and maybe grab stone eventually. Distance maintenance wouldn't be too bad. It would protect the iron but would cause some border hostility and would delay settling the north west wheat cow city.
     
  3. Smilingrogue

    Smilingrogue Raging Barbarian

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    I am not sure settling that city is a good idea. Your iron isn't actually under threat yet. You have culture accumulating on the square already, Pericles doesn't. Even as Creative, he will need a few more border pops to get there and I am willing to wager he won't be able to flip it via third or fourth border pop.

    The only threat is him settling there. If he does, then he might flip it, but he will have a crappy city and you have another source South. (You do, right?). Settling there yourself now means you start piling up close border tension demerits, pay maintenance for a dead-end desert retreat, constantly face revolt there due to Peri's creative trait and delay better city sites. (Even settling a food-less one tile island is better as it gets overseas trade routes)

    That's just my opinion and I am no way a great player. Others may have better ideas. :)
     
  4. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Played on a few more turns up to 300bc.

    Nothing major happened. Discovered Peri's third city, its on the south island. He's also settled a fourth city pinching a floodplain! As per plan we founded Agra in 450 and Calcutta in 350.



    In between I discovered currency in 375 which is helping with finances. I started on lit but I've changed my mind because Peri still won't trade maths and I want Taoism. Building wealth and running higher research slider really does make a difference. I'm debating if I want monarchy enough to trade currency for it. I probably should take it.



    My trade options are quite limited because its a problem getting past Toku who also turned Buddhist back in 600bc. There doesn't seem to be an alternative route anywhere else.



    A few wonders went this round: ToA bidl 525; HG Peri 500; Colossus bidl 325.

    One outstanding issue is further settlement. I'm now up to 7 cities and there's space for a few more in the south west though there is a barb city in the way. Peri's also got a settler/chariot combo around and maybe more out of sight.



    Research seems pretty straightforward at the moment: maths>lit>music>CS.

    Wonder building is another issue. I like the idea of Parthenon even though its only effectively 25% gpp (250 vs 200). Its going to be a few turns before borders pop so I can quarry marble. The other one is Sistine but I should have marble by then.

    Finally I'm debating if I should declare on Toku just to get through his borders. Will I be able to buy peace in a while or will he take umbrage and pack some swords on a couple of galleys?

    Thoughts, suggestions and questions are all welcome.
     

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  5. Shaandore

    Shaandore another mathematician

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    You are about to finish settling phase. You need to decide whether you want to go to war with pericles, to beeline astro or not. And most importantly, victory condition.

    Regardless of your tech path, I don't think that toku would attack, but it would be nice to get the trade routes. Try to settle a junk city on his landmass and gift the city to him. Hopefully it will get him to pleased.

    After filling the land, your empire should be in a good shape to outtech others. Settle your cities coastal to get overseas trades, and get some courthouses where you can. You should start growing your commerce cities to work more cottages. (Unfortunately yor land is a bit low on food, so you will have to make some farms and have some chain irrigation after CS)
     
  6. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I'm still thinking about going for cultural victory particularly if I can get Taoism for my third religion. Gandhi seems particularly suited for culture: spiritual for cheap temples (27 temples for 3*3 cathedrals) as well as civic changes (mainly slavery>caste) and philosophical for more GAs. If that's the case I only really need 2 more cities. I also need to decide on my three legendary cities and work out how they get the culture needed. Cottages and culture slider is the traditional route. Artists/sistine/rep is worth considering as an alternative. Does free speech give +100% culture from specialists?

    Gifting a city sounds like a useful option though it costs a 100 hammer settler. If I could get OB with Toku trade routes would be available pre astronomy. I'm slightly concerned about trading with Toku because Peri and Toku could become worse enemies if only because of religion. It would be a pain if Toku and/or Peri started demanding 'stop trading with Toku/Peri'.

    I could go for war to get the galley past and then buy peace with some junk techs which would certinly get me meeting the rest of the world a bit earlier. It would mean no trade routes with the rest of the world until astronomy which is a distance away but tech trading could be an option. I'm not sure about resource trading through closed borders.

    If I'm going for culture then I would be staying nice with my neighbour Peri while beelining liberalism. I might even consider going for lib>constitution for rep (and of course our happy jails).
     
  7. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    that gift city is sound advice...came to mind after seeing the peninsula. if you break the barrier of toku he will prove as loyal partner.

    maybe switch into budhism to make it easier? If I got the SS's right pericles isn't in any religion yet.

    dowing just for the sake of dowing isn't good planning
     
  8. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Pericles is a fellow Hindu. I'm getting +3 shared religion with him at the moment. Changing to Buddhism would certainly knock him down from pleased and he's a lot more powerful than I am. Even going NSR would knock him down to cautious.

    I also have the option of doing nothing and waiting for the rest of the world to find me at a later stage. I'd have to consider if there are any tech trades than I absolutely have to have at this stage and look at how I could get Pericles up to friendly.

    None of this stops me sending a settler to Tokuland and giving the city away.
     
  9. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    Switching into no state religion will only lower your relations with Peri for 5 turns :)
    You will get your +3 bonus back later.
    He also has no metals, no way he would plot ;)

    You could gift Currency and the cheap reli techs if not enuf for +4, then switch relis for 5 turns, and get open borders. You will get some better trade routes too, cos that barb city blocks no sea tiles ~~

    He most likely has galleys too, i dun think yours would make it thru.
    Gifting Toku 1 useful tech should hardly matter, gift city would not be enuf. +4 fair trade, +1 liberated = +4 total and you need +5 so you'd still need the reli switch anyways ;)
     
  10. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I may have to wait to see if Buddhism spreads to me. It certainly sounds like the advice from the immortal deities is don't declare on Toku and wait for an opportunity to get on his good side. This advice I shall follow.
     
  11. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    No need for Bud, just losing -2 with no state reli does the trick ;)
    You could get open borders this turn. Cost would be giving Currency + maybe small techs away (not like he would trade that with anyone ~~), and -1 happy in Hindu cities for 5 turns.
    Am 99% sure Peri will not start plotting, so he would not matter.
     
  12. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Sounds an excellent plan to me. I was going to trade currency to Peri for monarchy anyway. Getting monarchy and adopting HR would compensate for atheistic misery.
     
  13. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Such a good plan I adopted it immediately.
    Trade currency to Peri for monarchy,30g.
    Adopt NSR.
    Gift currency, med and poly to Toku.
    He's pleased (+5).
    Open borders? "We will never trade with you, our worst enemy" :rotfl:.
    Adopt HR.

    Now we're not Hindu our cows are no longer sacred. Give Toku a cow.
    Wait.
    Maybe Peri will become Toku's new unfriend.
     
  14. Smilingrogue

    Smilingrogue Raging Barbarian

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    Did you end turn after getting Toku to pleased? I played your save and he opens border after I get him to pleased and end turn. The worst enemy status disappears.

    The real challenge here isn't getting Toku to open borders, but balancing your diplo, since the Buddhist bloc will not be pleased with Peri. You will likely have to pick a side to make and keep friends.

    I only played one turn to see if Toku opens borders, so let's hope the Buddhist bloc isn't Sitting Bull and Ragnar! :lol: Good luck! :)
     
  15. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Toku at pleased is not something to worry about. The last SGOTM proved that. Once +5 happiness you get open borders.

    Culture victory should be possible but your capital is not a great commerce centre.

    You would need to plan a great artist farm at some point. The NE will help here.

    As for the Greeks. They could still get Phants. A minor threat I guess.
     
  16. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    Yeah, the "worst enemy" status is updated only at the end of turn.
     
  17. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    So, how about that. I hit return.
    Peri is now Toku's worst enemy.
    Toku is pleased. Open borders? Come on in.

    Our galley headed west.

    I finally learned maths in 200bc and bulbed philosophy, founding Taoism in the process. By an odd coincidence Christianity was founded the same turn.

    Swopped back to Hinduism.

    Switched to slavery for a few turns to whip out a couple of settlers.

    Bombay produced another GS which built an academy in Delhi.

    Learned literature, traded Col to Peri for OR and cash, swopped to OR to help Delhi build the Parthenon, still in progress. Studying music which should be learned in 6 turns.

    Met Peter, founder of Buddhism and despite religious differences he opened borders so exploration goes on. Interestingly Peter doesn't have OB with his fellow Buddhist Toku so Peri remains quite isolated.

    Got couple of settlers looking for a place to call home. Got a barb city which is nicely located but protected by four archers. Might need some nutcracker swords or hope that Peri fails to capture it so I can nip in.



    Need to keep exploring to find some worthwhile trades. This is what's available at the moment:



    Still a long way to go. While culture would be cool going down the music>lib path leaves an opening for a hackneyed cuirassier rush.
     
  18. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    The hardest bit about culture is that I don't have that many super sites, they're all pretty mediocre one way or another. If I go for multiple artists then my non culture cities can run cottages for research/cash and have one or two cities as unit pumps.

    In the meantime i have 2 cities to build, a south west barb city to capture and hope the economy doesn't crash, research will certainly slow abruptly with another 2 cities. I've only got six workers for soon to be nine cities so need more of those. Maybe I'll let Delhi build a prophet for a shrine.

    Obviously keep exploring.

    A question: if an AI only has one enemy can they have a worst enemy?
     
  19. framserv

    framserv Chieftain

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    For interest purposes, I would like to see you keep going culture - it always seems the hardest victory condition (prob just my playing style).

    I am not an immortal player but does this feel like a normal game? Shouldn't the AI be further ahead in tech by now? Does this mean that Peter has no other AI contact either?

    Sorry no help just questions!
     
  20. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I'm no immortal player either :D.

    That's part of the challenge ;).

    Cultural sounds very Gandhiesque.

    I'm also surprised that the AIs aren't further ahead. They quite possibly are semi-isolated. Guess we'll find out.
     

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