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RLC#4 Sitting Bull.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by pigswill, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Times for the series introduction:
    Spoiler :

    As said in RLC#1 this is a continuation of Sisutil's ALC series with a slightly different title to avoid copyright infringement .

    In terms of settings I'm going to go for standard size, normal speed, fractal map script, temperate with normal sea level. That's nothing to do with the relative merits of map size or speed (a debate I find slightly puerile tbh) but everything to do with familiarity. I'm also going to avoid huts and events partly to do with eliminating some elements of randomness and also partly due to familiarity. Barbarians will be normal because that's the default option and the AIs appear to be programmed to respond to normal barbs.

    edit1: mods. I've decided not to use any mods in this game either. That's not because I think that mods are a bad idea, in fact I reckon that many mods enhance gameplay. However if I'm playing a mod it means that people may have to load the mod to follow the game so it would limit participation to the people who have the mod installed.




    As you may have guessed from the title we're playing Sitting Bull who has been chosen by the Gods of Civilisation to represent the ethnic and cultural diversity of the Native Americans. They probably thought 'you don't like our choice, souix us'.



    Dog Soldiers look really good on paper until you try capturing a city with them. Even so they're cheap and cheerful melee defenders.

    On the subject of cheap and cheerful defenders we get the Totem Pole instead of a monument to boost our protective archers.

    Did I mention that Sitting Bull is both protective :thumbsup: and philosophical :thumbsdown:? One compensates for the other I suppose.

    Not only that but we start with agriculture and fishing just to make sure we don't try to abuse the GS engineering slingshot.

    However Mrs RNG has a surprise for the Gods of Civilisation:



    We've got fish (and some dry corn and rice). Shame we don't have potatoes in Civ4.

    Some settings:
    Spoiler :




    And a save:
     
  2. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

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    Sigh, damn barbs ruining my 1st try.

    Archer attacks my warrior at 70% odds, win. oki dokey..
    Archer attacks my woodsman warrior on hill at 27%. Win. Hold on a minute...
    Archer attacks my Dog Soldier at 13%. Win. Arghh, my farm pillaged. Ragequit.
    Can't have that kind of start.
     
  3. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    The nice thing about that capital is that the corn and rice will automatically irrigate with CS, which is probably the next best thing to having them wet.

    SIP--good production capital, no need to mess with it I don't think.
     
  4. barbertje

    barbertje Prince

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    I'd move the warrior SW, since I don't think going N or NE is giving you any useful info.
    Settler SW could be good to get more river tiles in the BFC, and it will make it easier to
    share the rice or corn with another city.
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Interesting start. I think one could make an argument to SoR here and build fast WB.....actually grow while working forest PH....and you have corn for a very close city.
     
  6. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

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    Was going to say the same thing, but it might also be worth it to blow some turns exploring a bit because if that grassland river leads to anything interesting it's probably better for the rice spot to be left for a later city.
     
  7. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    I don't think so. I think if you move the warrior SW its going to reveal water, unless you are hoping for a fish or clam resource. If you move the warrior N or NE that will reveal more land than water.

    As for the settler SIP or maybe 1 E onto the hill.
     
  8. chopster

    chopster thirsty for knowledge

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    My initial gut reaction was settling 1E and a second city likely 1W of the rice.
    I'm far from the leading authority on the matter, especially based on the current limited info.
     
  9. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    hmm I was going to suggest SIP

    it's clear that the fish can be settled later with overlap and even if it is slightly better then corn right now (2C diff) it costs relatively more (workboat with no worker starting)

    if you SIP you will have at least 5 riverside grassland tiles, tons of hammers in hills and after CS corn and rice is wet, which would be tougher to do other way then with SIP.

    I would move the warrior 1SW though first on the hill to see more about the south area.
    (seems like it will be blocked by grass hill forested though)
     
  10. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    I would suggest settling 1S to get more river tiles for more commerce and cottages for a long term Bureaucracy capital. Move the settler 1SE to scout a bit and then 1W. Then settle the next turn. Another city can surely claim the Fish.

    1S looks to still offer the same food and plenty of production.
     
  11. barbertje

    barbertje Prince

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    It might reveal more, but I don't think you would want to settle to the north.
    The initial location really has too much hills, so moving S or SW to get rid of some of them and get more river tiles seems good.
     
  12. Shaandore

    Shaandore another mathematician

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    In original location you have too many hills. Moving to the west would make the city one off coast, on the east you lose the river bonus. Moving north for the fish also loses the river and the corn, so north is not really an option.

    So I agree with ABigCivFan, moving 1S seems like the best choice.
     
  13. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    As a matter of slight interest the magic blue circle shines brightly on the grassland hill SW of the warrior, More food? Sushi heaven? Moving warrior onto the magic circle seems like the next move then post the obligatory screenshot before moving the settler.



    Well, that was a bad guess but not in a bad way. Settling SW seems more tempting now though tech path is slightly unclear: mining>BW>AH or AH>mining>BW (or mining>AH>BW). I'll probably be told food first, build worker, improve corn, rice, pigs.
     
  14. Shaandore

    Shaandore another mathematician

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    Yes, with the bacon around SW looks like best.

    This is a nice start. We already see a nice spot with fish+shared rice for a worker/settler pump city.
     
  15. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    if unsure you can always mine the pigs for very good tile...
     
  16. Tekatan

    Tekatan Chieftain

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    I would also suggest mining the pigs and foregoing animal husbandry unless some other cattle shows up. Perhaps bw->pottery
     
  17. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

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    Blergh. Non riverside rice is way more valuable as a +1F city tile, but the layout looks too awkward unless you took the risk of losing at least 1 turn to move the settler inland.
     
  18. chopster

    chopster thirsty for knowledge

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    See this is where I need the advice of the rest of you.

    I'm still thinking (gut only, no calcs) of settling the PH and then settling the city 1W of rice for my settler/worker pump/GP farm.

    I would then go straight to mining->BW and be sure I was safe from barbs with dog soldiers.

    I'd love it if someone could explain why this is a bad idea based on what we see now.
     
  19. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I'm not an expert (obviously) but I'd guess that capital is likely to be the early settler/worker pump. You also have to balance out the short term role of capital as early pump with longer term role of bureaucratic hammer/commerce pump. Commerce is usually harder to get than hammers so a cottage capital is pretty good with bureau (and probably academy).

    Settling 1E gives plenty of hilly hammers but not so much food in the medium/long term.

    Settling 1SW gives three food tiles for early growth, at least four hills for some production and some space for riverside cottages which makes it a nicely balanced hybrid site.
     
  20. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    Why necessarily settle 1SW? Move the settler 1SW, then warrior 1S on next turn. Based on what'll be revealed, I'd probably consider moving settler 1S (maybe unless forested) and settling there. Losing dry rice is borderline irrelevant, and getting more cottageable riverlands, and not being bloody 1-off-coast would definitely beat the dry rice.
     

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