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RLC#4 Sitting Bull.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by pigswill, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    moving palace is very costly (160 hammers in the timeframe we talk here are no joke, it's like 2/3 of mids with stone cost) and making clearly suboptimal capital city when you have on hand fantastic spot with 3 food source (even if one sucks a bit) enough riverside and hammers would be very ???? move.

    the strategy here should be obviously min->bw and I would prioritize pottery then since DS is resourceless and pigswill should get out couple of them easily with BW and forests needed to be cleared for cottages to be placed.

    City 2 could indeed go north for overlap on cottages, improved hills, or towards AI depends a bit on correct scouting.
     
  2. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    So I moved the settler SW, hit return then moved the warrior S onto yet another hill. Settler hasn't moved yet.



    SIP gives us rice, corn, pigs, 3GH, 2PH, 7 riverside grass,1 grass, 1 plain, 1 coast, 2 unknown (likely grass).

    1S loses sheep, coast, 2PH, grass. Gains 5 unknown (2 riverside, probably grass). On the other hand we're running into jungle :)yuck:).

    My incilination is SIP.
     
  3. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    i would settle where you are....seems like great spot for capital
     
  4. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    1 off coast makes me vomit.:lol: I'd still go 1s.
     
  5. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    1 tile doesn't make or break a game...
     
  6. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    same can be said about SIP, one dry rice vs. mass riverside. You can then settle for fish/rice/phs for a worker and settler pump.
     
  7. Shaandore

    Shaandore another mathematician

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    This is a great spot, and 1S could cripple the clam city. 1S also loses two PHs. 1 S gains more grass tiles, but we already have 9-10 cottageable tiles, and that is already much more than what one can hope to work in the early-mid game.
    By working the two mined PHs you get 8 raw :hammers:, and they are easily workable with all this food. (even before CS).

    The fish-rice helper city can be settled either way.

    So I agree with Vranasm, settling here is superior IMO.
     
  8. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    well not really you would lose dry rice and 2 hills (which are plains hills, but that are reasonable tiles eventually) and buying instead most probably 2 jungle tiles (well maybe 1 3S down on river the 1NE from him is forest maybe)

    picking up plains tile and 2 riverside tiles instead of those rice and 2 hills I mentioned... doesn't seem like good trade off.

    if he settles in the place he is... he will have very good balance of early game hammers and commerce tiles. Moving down will reduce the hammers a lot.
     
  9. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    I would say SIP as well. As for the one coastal tile, it is only going to come into play in the late game, so it will not matter much IMO. One south will replace the coastal tile with a plains, so it would not be much better than the coastal tile.
     
  10. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    At size 5, you'll still have pigs, corn and 3 grass hills to work. The phs are nonfactor.

    This tendency towards bad settling recently (check that Alex earth game) is atrocious.
     
  11. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    I could immediately reverse it and say at size 5 you work pigs, corn and 3 grass riveside cottages so getting more is nonfactor... Seems silly right?

    Let's talk about realistic target size for t115 (1AD). I will put it as size 10 capital.

    you will obviously work pigs, corn, 3 hills and 5 cottage tiles... we're still nowhere close to striking the difference in both spots (or pigs, corn, 7 riverside cottage tiles and either 1 more riverside cottage or 1 grass nonriverside cottage).

    the ability to work plains hill mines for city spot as is means good "oomph" for capital if he needs to run a lot of hammers... (wonders, units, ...) that's something you immediately lose settling 1S (what if you find marble and want to build TGL at the 500BC mark? compare those 2 spots for production output in such task).

    Plains hills can be used as a way of stagnating growth (which is suboptimal for sure, but available).

    the "real difference" starts to show up when we talk about size 15+ capital... which to be honest is a lot of way off...

    the last sentence for sure wasn't needed the way it was typed in a good discussion especially when you present so weak arguments itself.
     
  12. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    Hard to post eloquently via phone. Point is, SIP's short term benefit is almost monexistent. More cottages in capital plus a fishrice prod city with the phs beat it handily, and get rid of the atrocity that is 1 off coast.

    If you really cared so much about production, you'd have settled 1 w of rice.
     
  13. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    What is so wrong with being 1 of coast in this case?
     
  14. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    Dead tile for no tangible gain.
     
  15. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    If you move from rice you need AH in between 2-3 first techs. Dry corn just not gonna cut it. In place you can delay AH for quite time - pigs are nearly as good mined assuming enough food to grow.

    Early flexibility seems be worth tile which won't matter untill modern era. But that is just my opinion.
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    If you are relying on 20th tile of capital to win game, you might want to review your openings. Having 1 extra early strong tile is worth maybe 5 crappy tiles.
     
  17. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    I agree. But in this case, there's no extra strong tile in play.
     
  18. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    You should do a thread of all your 1 liner advice. It would make great reading. Probably improve the average player to immortal plus.

    I might give this game a whirl. I need to improve my evaluations of starts.

    So far I see a lot of food but no commerce.

    Dog soldiers are strong barb defence.

    I see 2-3 decent food cities from starting grid.
     
  19. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    up to 1000bc

    Spoiler :


    Settled 1SW. Seemed a reasonable site.

    Went wheel, mining, pottery, writing, BW. A big gamble really.

    Used only warriors to fog bust. I will need dog soldiers soon. I missed early BW for whipping and chopping. Library is ready and some specialists up and running.

    So far found 4 decent city sites. I am sure there is enough for a peaceful rex.
     
  20. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I must admit to being curious about the blue circle in this game when there are other spots nearby that would get a third food tile in BFC.

    Settling 1S would require getting AH early on for a second food tile which you'd very likely need if you're planning on growing while working cottages.

    I don't think the coastal tile is a major issue (particularly if we end up building a fishing village north of the clams) so it comes down to riverside cottages vs plainhills and rice.
     

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