RLC#4 Sitting Bull.

[Silverbow]

I've thought about it a bit more and yeah it's not major. I guess it just irks me that it promotes what is usually a horrid play (1-off-coast).

I did a quick test run for comparison with no microing to 2000 BC (50 turns), settling 1S of your spot. Three cities, two workers, three warriors, AH -> mining -> BW -> wheel all researched.

 

[ben-jammin]

It's mediocre short term, awful long-term, and moving the Palace is a pretty big investment. Whether to move or not depends on how much you're willing to risk in your opening. If losing two turns gives you a capital that's as good short term and a lot better long-term, then it's worth it. Don't even consider the rice when making this decision.

 

[Tekatan]

575 BC

Spoiler :

I settled one south-west and mining -> the wheel. First I intended to go bronze before that, but I intended to build my second city at size 3 and needed roads before that. Next techs were bronze -> pottery for commerce

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I whipped the workboat for mount city in poverty point. My next tech was writing for a library in Cahokia. The warrior the the south (woodsman 2 now) will start exploring.

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After writing I researched animal husbandry and horses were revealed to the south. I will save up my money for aesthetics now, and start research after I build my academy.

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Germany began plotting on someone, I guess Tokugawa.
Looks like the north might belong completely to me, I sure hope so. My next cities will be settled to the south for now.

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And there is the great scientist. Isabella just got to Alphabet, it's time to get some trades going. I really need to get out more cities now, soon i will have trade routes.

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Some more overlap with my capitol.

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Guess I don't need to settle the elephants yet.

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I will settle either here, or one to the south, but not yet. Just got aesthetics this turn

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Finally opening up some trades. The turn after that I got iron working from Germany. I started self teching mysticism. In the northeast of Cahokia some iron popped up.

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Next City; I don't expect to hold the gems very long, but it will block Zara off the north. Buddhism just spread to me, I will soon switch into it, there is no other religion yet.

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Alphabet traded its way around. Should have gotten hunting for the elephants i guess.

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I will soon settle the elephants, because i desperately need some failgold via Statue of Zeus. I will try to get monarchy in my hands to grow Cahokia and I'm thinking about another commerce city, perhaps Mount City. Once I get traderoutes with Zara, I should be able to expand some more. Now that I have Iron Working I will need some more workers for the jungle. I wonder what I should aim for now, I have quite a lot of good land and can basically do anything. The other question is what to do with my 2nd great scientist.

Spoiler :

Reviewing this I forgot to switch to buddhism, I will do that just now.

 

[vranasm]

@tekatan

Spoiler :

I would wait couple of turns with the switch so Izzy has some time to make demand on you...

 

[Tekatan]

@vranasm

Spoiler :

That would probably have been a better course of action, right now I don't profit from the religion and everyone is friendly enough.

To 1 AD

Spoiler :

I decided to go for culture this game. I settled the elephants the moment the road was ready and I marked another city to the east which will become one of my three culture cities. Developing it will take quite some time, but at least it has a lot of river tiles for cottages. Once I start getting some culture I will easily push Zara back. I just have to hurry to get it there before his borders pop again. The third will be another
not yet settled city to the north with fish and rice and the national epic.

Spoiler :

The corn/fish city for the national epic won't be uncontested. I just saw Friedrich's borders to the east. I don't know if i can get the fish in the east, too. The traderoutes increased my gpt a little, but i am still far from making real money. Isabella just traded me marble for iron, perhaps i can get more failgold than expected.

This city doesn't help at all, but I am really afraid of losing that place. I will build an academy there for some fast culture. I don't wont to lose it to a flip. i don't need the scientist right now. I would like to keep him for taoism, but I won't get to drama or code of law anytime soon and I may be able to get another one by that time.

Spoiler :

I will immediately chop a library here and work two scientists as soon as possible.
(Looking back, since I started running the scientists in Cahokia again, i probably should have kept the forests for the National Epic.

Spoiler :

I justed missed the Statue of Zeus, but with Issis Marble I will get some failgold out of the Parthenon.

Friedrich settled that spot to the east on the same turn, but he will not enjoy that corn very long, once I run artists here.

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With nothing real to do here I decided to go for the third scientist in the capitol again.

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With that last city the great hunger for expansion of the native americans will be satisfied. The city will be settled at a better time, right now money really is low. I am putting everything into one term of research for monarchy, so i can trade it from Zara. After that Cahokia can finally grow and the slider will go up again. Chaco Canyon is building research right now until the parthenon is almost build in Mesa Verde (the horse city).

Spoiler :

Finally. Still didn't get my hands on maths because on immortal the AI is always late to trade that. I still chopped some non math forests into the parthenon because some money is still better than none and i need it asap.

The trade for monotheism slipped right through my hands when suddenly Zara traded monarchy to Isabella. Friedrich doesn't have Monotheism. I put off switching, because in just a moment I will connect wine and gems to the network and see no other reason to waste a turn for anarchy right now. I will try to put it off until i can make a double switch.

Spoiler :

Aaaand 1 AD
There is Zara's border pop as expected. I guess I won't enjoy the gems I hooked up just this turn very long... With 3 growth resources Cahokia can run 2 scientists and still grow fast. The neighboring towns are all building workers right now, so they won't need it. I will go to currency next and then lit and music. i took quite some nice land, but now i need to develop and grow, so that post lib my cities have some nice culture.

Spoiler :

 

[Tekatan]

And up to 520 AD, I intended to keep it faster but in the end it was even more detailed than before...

Spoiler :

The Parthenon got built in 25 AD, which brought in around 350 gold. I traded rice to Zara for sugar.

Please, if you would? Of course my friend. Sadly that takes one trade with currency away. Also, Christianity spread to Moundville (the city bordering on zara with the academy)

Spoiler :

Moving through techs faster now. With currency I get 23 gpt if i turn the slider to zero. Sadly right now there are no resource deals I can make with anyone.

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Couldn't get sailing out of it without giving him money. Though i would really like to get it, I want calendar sooner or later. Cahokia and Mound Ville will start on markets now.

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Isabella already had Literature, so i didn't feel too bad giving it away. I really wanted to start running organized religion to build some missionaries and maybe spread buddhism a little. I switched into OR and monarchy on the same turn.

Spoiler :

I am not sure if I should have partly researched code of laws and tried for a trade. I expected that chance to be gone any time now though, so I took this.

Spoiler :

This will be whipped into the Great Library. In addition to that the two forests are just about to be chopped. Sadly there is no buddhism in this city, but i won't spread it in the hope to catch something new here. I won't build the GL because the scientist in cahokia right now will be my last. After that only artists and I don't want pollution in my cities. This one seems good enough as second pump next to my National Epic.
On the same turn i trade clam for 5 gold to Germany.

Spoiler :

150 gold equivalent in the city before and even more in here. I also trade literature to Germany for 90 gold and make a play for music.

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And some more gold. In one city I have started building warriors for Cahokia (traded my iron away)

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At 450 AD my great scientist is finally ready. I guess the 2nd academy really didn't delay me. I will trade music against code of laws and drama if possible. Building some scouts now to finally get some informations on this continent. If i missed someone
just because I scouted so late I will be pissed at myself again.

Another fine trade, the great artist is still open.

Spoiler :

Ok, now I need to push my science rate to 1 turn - didn't even have to build wealth after that trade.

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A wonderful turn. I got the great Artist and Isabella would trade me 10 gold for music.
First I take drama (I don't have any intention of switching into caste right now, I need to build a lot of stuff and have to spread my religions.

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That bulb is why I didn't take metal casting, the religion was still open.

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Finally getting this one settled.

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Isabella cancelled the Marble - Iron deal this turn, but I couldn't miss the marble right now.

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And here is where i will try to build the Sistine Chapel. The capitol would be faster but I need to work the high commerce tiles over there. I wonder though if it would make sense to build infrastructure in this city, there will be enough use for my hammers for a long time to come and while the culture bonus is nice, it will take me a long time to build it and i won't be growing cottages in that time. The great Artist is coming down to this city and will be settled here.

Spoiler :

The Great Library has just been built, I am expecting around 400 failgold next turn. I plan to move through code of laws, bureau and paper now, I don't expect to need anything else before lib. I will trade for metal casting calendar at some time sooner or later.

It seems some parts of the pics have been cut off, I hope nothing important is missing.

 

[Tekatan]

1280 AD

Spoiler :

Got calendar and 100 gold for music from Friedrich. I also decided not to build the Sistine Chapel in Moundville. I cancelled rice to sugar (deal with Zara) when Cahokia started feeling sick.

A little fuel for my research. I am mostly spreading religions, building temples and theatres now, National Epic is almost built. I will stop it, build some much needed infrastructure first and get some failgold in the meantime.

Spoiler :

In 680 Zara already finished the Sistine Chapel. Never had a chance then. No matter, more gold. I really would love stone now, the Angor Wat and the Chichen Itza are both open.

The plantation was just ready and opens this new deal for me.

Spoiler :

Finally bureau, now I can spread irrigation to my National Epic (though I will have to stomp over the cows) and get a lot more beakers out of my capitol. Apostolic Palace has just been built in buddhism, pleasant surprise (well, not so much).

Spoiler :

Almost done, except for liberalism I only need nationalism now (perhaps printing press, but i won't research that.

Spoiler :

In 980 AD Germany and Japan finally stop their fruitless war. For how many years has this been going on now? I am building the National Epic in more than one city now, my National Epic city is almost ready, too.
in 1030 AD the National Epic is built, and I get 450 failgold just as my savings run out. Isabella, who got philosophy and paper went for nationalism, hopefully enough time for me to reach lib first.

Moundville is finally starting to get productive. It just built the buddhist stupa (I am not whipping here anymore) but is still a long way from the capitol. Right now I focus on buddhist and taoist buildings, because I have copper.

Spoiler :

No longer having any kind of monopoly and being close to education

Spoiler :

A tradecheck just after finishing it showed, that Isi is on another path or at least has only started on education.

Sadly, He is on that way, I successfully beg for the money and start building wealth everywhere. 3 more turns...

Spoiler :

I take this and on that same turn switch into FS, caste and pacifism. I am really annoyed when Isi won't give me nationalism even against printing press and education. It's education she is researching though, so I will get my hand on it soon enough.

Spoiler :

I see no reason not to get something in return as long as i can still trade. Everyone except Toku is friendly, they won't declare war on me. On the contrary, if they are ahead of the oversee AI those will stay backward even longer (the most advanced wonder that has not been built by the buddhists ist the colossus)

Spoiler :

Excellent, now I have nationalism. The National Epic runs 5 artists right now, which will increase a lot once i flip the corn.

Spoiler :

I wonder if settling there would be worth it. Astronomy might also increase my income via oversea traderoutes. In anyway I want to scout the seas.

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More backfilling. The turn after, Germany converted to confuzianism. He is still pleased with me. I hope he will at least spread his religion to me.

Spoiler :

This just smells like trouble. Perhaps i should at least research gunpowder (or try to get it in a trade before concentrating on culture). At least he is a little backward. I
started on hermitage in Moundville.

Spoiler :

Waiting any longer is probably too risky.

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And finally number 7. This game started out very peaceful and now saladin is my worst enemy.

Spoiler :

That made him cautious again, still worst enemy though.

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This plus open borders might help. And the gold helps me right now anyway.

Spoiler :

The corn is finally mine.

Spoiler :

Since researching lib I already spawned 2 great Artists, one in the National Epic City, one in the Gem City, both settled in Moundville. After this i will save the artists to bomb the National Epic.

 

[pigswill]

Anyone following Tekatan's game won't be surprised by the fruits of my limited exploration.

I decided not to go south and settled Flying Pig where the settler was standing.



Only 6 riverside grassland cottages because the tile to the north east will be farmed to irrigate corn and rice when CS is in. There's always the option of cottages on the grassland hills but much too early to decide.

Techwise I'm going for mining>BW then almost certainly wheel>pottery.

I've got as far as discovering mining while my warrior has looked up north then found some mountains to the east. .



Gosh two fishes and a bunch of hills, maybe a production site in there somewhere but its too early to be fixed on specific sites. I must remember to check out the coast northwest of pigs on the slim chance there's another seafood there

I think I'll head warrior down south to see how long he survives.

Bronzeworking in 17 turns, worker in 7, 10 turns to move and farm corn and rice, should work out ok.

 

[Gumbolt]

City planning is key here. Those double fish are nice but require a border pop.

 

[Tekatan]

and finishing it up

Spoiler :

This will keep him in the buddhist camp and keep De Gaulle busy. Perhaps Saladin will join into the war. With this trade I basically gave away anything that I had left techwise. I hope they will generate some sweet hate between themselves without my intervention.

Spoiler :

The turn after was so beautiful. Saladin declared on Germany, Isabella on Saladin and Zara on De Gaulle. But now I may be forced in by an apostolic vote, even though that won't hurt me to much. I will build a few knights and at some time sooner or later can fortify muskets.

Tokugawa now declared on Zara and the apostolic vote forced me in against De Gaulle. More importantly though, look at that nice religion I just caught.

Spoiler :

Two revolts in one turn, one here and the other up in the German city next to my National Epic. On top of this I succeeded in circumnavigating the globe. I tried around building over my mines in the capitol, but in the end decided to just run artists instead, as soon as I got enough health to run them. I am not financial and they will be of no use for a long time. I can work the mines whenever I need some more production. Moundville will also keep most mines, but I will build over the tiles it can share with neighboring cities, at least until it is fully grown they are not of
use and perhaps they get to village status by that time which gives me 4 beakers.

Spoiler :

I am buying out of the war just before this stack can attack my undefended oversea city which gives me nice traderoutes. The cost of this: just 105 gold.

Spoiler :

The empire welcomes you. Now go and work those 2 cottage tiles.

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The ironic thing is, that such a productive city is by far more useful for your treasury than one with high grown cottages, once you turn the culture slider up. There is no use building harbors, banks etc, it will actually slow your victory down.

Spoiler :

The best thing: there is yet another religion in there.

Spoiler :

1575 AD Zara switches into Islam and is now cautious with me. I stop building wealth in one city and start building a few knights. It doesn't matter if my commerce is lower right now, because the critical city will be the national epic. It has 5000 culture there right now and I am just at my fifth great artist, while the other two cities are (at 80% slider) 80 turns away from legendary.

And now Zara spreads Islam to me, though it won't be of any real use to me anymore. I regret now, that I didn't go for a third cottage type culture city, using the national epic just to pump artists. Even a weak city with a few cottages and cathedrals would easily have doubled the culture my national epic produces.

Spoiler :

Zara started plotting. He is worst enemy of De Gaulle but I still don't like it. Since I have no real use for this city I decide to use it to push up our relations. He stops plotting after that, guess I dodged this one

Spoiler :

another insurance

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The peace treaty is still active, so I dare refuse.

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in 1685 AD Isi peacevassals Toku and declares on Germany. I hope no one else starts plotting now. The 7th great artist was just born (the 7th not yet settled one) and I need 10 or 11, so I guess it works out ok.

No sense resisting

Spoiler :

Closing in on it I start building wealth even in the culture cities. I also delete a few units. Actually got my slider up to 100% by doing this. Should have done this earlier than this.

Spoiler :

1765 AD the Arabs start plotting. I am not the worst enemy but still disliked by them. 1795 AD Germany starts plotting too. They just made peace with Isabella. I am not worried though, they are pleased with me and Tokugawa declared himself independent again the moment the war was over.

Making sure this city doesn't pop an artist this turn, so another city finishes first
I am not sure how it is decided which city finishes first, when both are within one turn, so I just trust the bug mod display here.

Spoiler :

Moundville within 2, National Epic at 44k, two artists standing ready. Cahokia actually got its own bomb just a little while ago, because it was 3 turns slower than Moundville. 3 settled artists and hermitage make quite the difference.

Spoiler :

And there it is. As i said it would have been faster, if I had just built a third cottage+cathedral city, then I could have used those artists on all the other cities and saved quite a few turns.

Spoiler :

I welcome any advice to improve my game.

 

[Manco Capac]

City planning is key here. Those double fish are nice but require a border pop.

Hmmm...what about working rice while settling on that PH...problem is no culture building like the monument for a long time. So better settle close to fish to work it earlier.

 

[pigswill]

The Tale of Runs From Bears.

While our scholars are trying to fathom out the enigma of Bronze Working our not very brave brave wanders the wilderness in a general southerly direction.

(3480)Our brave sees a bear in the distance and runs away, he earns the name Runs From Bears.
(3400)Runs From Bears sees a panther, he can't run away in time so climbs a tree. He survives and is named Panther.
(3280) Panther is still in his tree waiting to heal up when he gets attacked by another panther, survives again, well done Two Panthers.
(3000). Having survived and picked up the rudiments of Woodcraft Two Panthers meets yet another panther, once again his skill in climbing trees comes in handy. Three Panthers resumes his explorations.

Relatively dull stuff.
3480. Meet Isabella the Buddhist's warrior from the south. We have a fleeting encounter with Frederick's scout, no idea where this happened.
3400. Meet Zara's emisssary also from the south.
3360 Worker>warrior. Worker heads to corn.
3160. Meet's Toku's envoy from the north east.
2960. Bronze Working done, start on wheel. No copper in sight. No matter:



The uninspiring south:



An overview:

 

[pigswill]

If we grow to pop 5 building warrior/dog soldiers then FP can stabilise at pop5 without needing rice which would free rice up to support fishing hills until we get culture to pop borders to work fish.

It looks like we're not going to be squeezed by AI super early (famous last words) but barbs could be problematic. It also seems to me that the major factor in expansion is going to be economic so having some early cottages will help on that.

 

[Bandobras Took]

If we grow to pop 5 building warrior/dog soldiers then FP can stabilise at pop5 without needing rice which would free rice up to support fishing hills until we get culture to pop borders to work fish.

This has just become my favorite Civ 4 sentence of all time.

 

[Shaandore]

I see you decided to go for BW->Wheel. I guess BW was for the protection & chops & whips. Wheel for hooking up city no. 2.

With only the rice the second city spot is not very good. Maybe Clam city is better as second one? In any case I wouldn't rush the next settler. Maybe second worker is better here?

Are you planning Pottery next? AH could be skipped until after writing.

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

Techwise I'm going for mining>BW then almost certainly wheel>pottery.

Looks like Pottery to me, he wants cottages early anyway. In fact, I dare speculate that the reasoning for researching the Wheel was more about getting to Pottery than hooking up the second city but both are worthy goals.

 

[pigswill]

Three Panthers has explored a large area to the south of our tribal lands and survives unscathed.



Flying Pig built a warrior, a dog soldier and a settler (aided by one chop) and is now building another worker (due in 3).

Our solitary worker finished rice (2t), mined pigs(6t), mined ghill (5t) and chopped a road(6t); he hasn't had a holiday in years .

Our dog soldier hasn't discovered much.



He has survived a barb archer however and is about to try his luck again.

Our wise people discovered the wheel in 2640 and pottery in 2240.

Tokugawa of all people founded Hinduism in 2800 and promptly adopted it. He and Izzy are going to get along just fine.

Some builder types have completed Stonehenge in 2440 and Great Wall in 2240.

By the way, the game year is now 2240bc. I thought I'd take a break after pottery. A few choices: mysticism for iconic totem poles or AH to add some cowboys to the indians or maybe even writing just because. Our settler is a turn away from Fishing Hills.

In the short term FH working rice is pretty ordinary, in the medium term working fisheses, rice and hills or specialists its not too bad at all.

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

I like Fishing Hills quite a lot, it can generate GP or hill-hammers or whips, that is always useful to have. As for tech, to get FH up to speed you need a border pop, that indicates Mysticism to me. Then AH and Writing. That would be my approach, I'm interested to hear what others would do.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Tokugawa of all people founded Hinduism in 2800 and promptly adopted it.

Just when you think you know the game . . .

 

[pigswill]

I haven't been in the mood for civ recently .

Time to have another look at this.

I think I'll revolt to slavery while settler is still moving then start on mysticism while growing Fishy Hills, start a Dog then swop to monument and whip it. Flying Pig will knock out a Dog or two after the worker coz there's a lot of open space for barbs and not too much exploring done yet
.
I'll probably go AH after writing otherwise its a long wait for aesthetics>alpha-trade.