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Rnes5: To Trust a Thief. Board NES

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by RoddyVR, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. RoddyVR

    RoddyVR Veteran Board NESer

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    4,210
    Location:
    Russian in US
    This is a BOARD nes. if you're used to the story games that are plaguing the forum now, please read the rules before signing up.
    biggest differences are:
    1. you realy have to send orders every turn. its VERY hard for a mod if people skip orders (cause i need to make them up myself and without conflicting if i gotta do 2 neighbor nations)
    2. you have to give SPECIFIC orders. for every unit you want moved, for every structure you want built. not just "grow army" or something.

    Map: see next post.
    Each nation has a color. Colored territories belong to that nation.
    On Land:
    Squares are armies of the territory's owner.
    Colored Squares in a White Province belong to the Nation of their color.
    Circles are Towns.
    Diamonds are Military Bases.
    Crosses are Cities.
    At Sea:
    Colored Squares are Fleets.
    Black Squares attached to Fleets are Armies boarded on that Fleet.
    Income:
    Taxes:
    Each Province without buildings provides 1 gold per turn.
    Each Province with a Town provides 2 gold per turn.
    Each Province with a Military Base provides 1 gold per turn.
    Each Province with a City provides 3 gold per turn.
    Caravan Trade:
    This is special income, and is explained below under the "Trust a Thief System" heading.

    Structures:
    Only one Structure can be built in each of your territories per turn.
    Town - 2 Gold. Can be built on any empty Province. Provides more taxes (see above).
    Military Base - 3 Gold. Can only be built on a Province with a Town. Allows building of units in this province. Lowers your tax income. (see above).
    City - 5 Gold. Can only be built on a Province with a Military Base. Allows building of units in this province. Provides a lot more taxes (see above). Provides a Militia for the Province which counts as a Defending Army if the province is attacked.
    Engeneered City - 15 Gold. Exactly the same as a regular City except that it can be built in provinces without any existing structures (no Town or Military base). The rush job required to build it raises the cost by 50% (compared to a Town+Military Base+City).

    Units:
    Army - 2 Gold then 1 Gold per turn. Can be built in Military bases and Cities. CAN NOT MOVE the turn it is built. After that can move to any adjacent territory each turn (including seas that have your fleets ready for transporting).
    Fleet - 3 Gold then 1 gold per turn. Starts in a Sea zone adjacent to the Military Base or City it was built in. CAN NOT MOVE the turn it is built. Every turn a fleet can do ONE of the following:
    Take on Armies from the shore (can hold upto 4)
    Move to an adjacent sea
    Unload Armies onto any ONE land territory that borders the Sea its in.

    Matters of War:
    Unit movement - When a unit is ordered to move somewhere, it will blindly get there before looking around. If you order an army to go to an enemy province and they order one to cross the same border, they will pass right by eachother. Same applies to Ships.
    Claiming Provinces - When your army moves into a WHITE province, you can ORDER it to claim that province for your Nation. This does not require a seperate turn, but it will NOT happen AUTOMATICALY.
    Peacefull Coexistance - Fleets of different nations (even ones at war) will sit side by side without fighting unless ORDERED to attack. The only Exception is that your Fleets will automaticaly attack ships that are trying to unload troops onto Provinces of YOUR nation.
    Armies of different Nations CANNOT coexist in the same land Province. They will always fight all armies of other nations to the death. Even in Provinces that neither player "Claimed".
    Collateral Damage - Whenever a Province changes hands after a battle (ie the attacker wins), the Structure in the Province is downgraded one level. City becomes Military Base, Military Base becomes Town, Town is whiped out.
    Combat System
    A=number of Attacking Armies
    D=number of Defending Armies
    X=bigger of A and D.
    Attacker rolls an A*X sided die. Defender rolls an D*X sided die.
    Attacker looses number of Armies equal to Defender's Roll divided by X.
    Defender looses number of Armies equal to Attacker's Roll Divided by X.
    Round the losses down for the one who got the higher roll.
    Round the losses up for the one who go the lower roll.
    If rolls were equal then round both UP (standoff, more deaths, and both loose same number anyway).
    The Cycle repeats (with new A,D and X) untill one side is completely gone.
    Sea Battles - Any Fleets with Armies on them will start sinking after the empty ones are dead. Navy battles happen after all ships have moved, but before any armies are loaded or unloaded to the ships.
    Multi Nation Battles - When more then two Nations are involved in a battle, the "Hits" each nation rolls will be devided evenly among the other participants unless the player indicates in his orders that his Armies should aim for Armies of a specific nation.

    Alliences, Deals and Gifts
    Treaties
    All player agreed on treaties are backed only by the reputation of that player/nation. There are no game penalties for backstabbing, breaking promises or attacking allies. Just dont expect too many others to trust you afterwards.
    Gifts
    There is no giving up of territories, no handing over of units. You cant have your fleets transport another Nations armies. You cant just give them gold. (see "Theft" below for a hint though).

    Trust a Thief System:
    This is the "Innovative" part of this game. I hope it works well.
    This is basicaly a trading system. You invest some of your gold into Caravan Units and then send them into the world to do trade. If they come back successfully, you get double your investment back. However then Nations you send your Caravans to could decided that they dont want you making money off their populace and just steal your Caravans (taking your investment gold for themselves). So you could make a lot of money (double your own investment and steal the Caravans sent to your Nation) or you could end up having your whole investment stolen from you.
    Are your Allies loyal enough not to steal from you?
    Are your Enemies dumb enough to let your Caravans make money off their populace?
    Is everyone else afraid enough of you to not want to tick you off?
    You decide........

    Special Units
    Caravan - 1 Gold. Will Trade with a Nation of your choice, and if not Stolen by that Nation, will bring back 2 gold. Caravans only last a turn. You cannot send more Caravans to any Nation then THAT NATION's TAX income in the last update.
    Caravan Escort - 1 Gold. An Army Unit that Escorts one of your Caravans and reports back if anything bad happens to the Caravan. If an Escorted Caravan is Stolen, you will be informed of it, and unlike usualy, you'll know which nation is stealing your Caravans. Caravan Escorts only last a turn.

    Theft
    "If they're in my nation, they must be for me!?!"
    When others send Caravans into your Nation you may order you minions to steal some or all of the Caravans. This will give you the gold value of the Caravans, and the Nation that sent them will be left with nothing for their trouble.
    NOTE: this can be used by allies to give eachother money by sending Caravans you know/agree will get stolen.
    "Me? You DARE accuse me of Stealing you Caravans?"
    The Nations who's Caravans you took might not even figure out that it was you that robbed them. They will only be told that of ALL the Caravans they sent out (to all the Nations), only this many came back. So they wont know which Nation took some (unless you're the only one they send Caravans to).
    "Oh, you have pictures? Well, yes, it was me. Hope you dont mind."
    If one of the Caravans you Steal from a Nation has an Escort with it, they WILL know that you stole from them. However your chances of getting caught are minimal unless you get TOO greedy or the other Nation is willing to Spend a lot of Gold on catching you in the act.
    Your minions are Skilled but Stupid
    When you order your minions to Steal some Caravans comming from a certain Nation, they will always steal the Unsecorted ones first, but if your orders tell them to steal more, they WILL start stealing the Escorted ones and figure that you know what you're doing.

    Trust a Thief Orders
    Caravans and War - Caravans are not affected by ANYTHING that happens on the board or in Diplomacy. You are more then welcome to send Caravans into your bitter enemy's lands. He'll probably Steal them, but you're still allowed to send them. There are no "blockades" or anything like that possible. You DONT have to be neighbors with a Nation to send Caravans to them. Even if the Nation you sent Caravans to got conquered during the update, you'll still get your Caravan income (assuming they didnt steal them).
    In your orders you will need to specify 2 things:
    1. How many Caravans (and Caravan Escorts) you are sending to which nations. You cannot send more Caravans to a Nation then their Tax Income in the last update. So if the "current" map shows them having only 4 territories, all with cities, then you cant send more then 12 Caravans to that Nation.
    2. Which Nations you will steal Caravans from if they send them to your nation. You can give orders like:
    "Steal everything they send" (Call me greedy! Who cares if they know.)
    "Steal 2 Caravans" (Figure at least 2 wont be escorted, "Skimming")
    "Steal all but 3 Caravans" (Aint like they'd send more then 3 Escorts anyway)
    "Steal 2 Caravans for every 5 they send" (Lets call it an import tax)
    You CANNOT give conditions that involve the Military side of the game, like:
    "if he attacks me, steal all his caravans."
    "if my attack fails......"
    Provided Information:
    The Updates, along with the map, will have the Total Gold each Nation has to spend, and the Tax Income of each (just so you dont have to count it up from the map)
    Also I will send each of you a PM that tells you:
    How much you had left from last turn.
    Add in your tax income.
    Add in the Caravan income (twice the number of caravans that didnt get stolen)
    Add in the Theft income (you might not know if you had orders like "steal everything Russia sends")
    Subtract the Upkeep for your units (1 gold per unit)
    Equals your Total Gold (posted on the Update)
    and ofcourse Which of your Escorts came back with bad news (which nations stole enough from you for the escorts to notice)

    Turn Update Rules
    Order of Events
    Disband unsupported units (and unused Caravans and Escorts)
    Purchase of new Units
    Purchase of Structures
    Movement of Ships
    Resolving Naval Battles
    Movement of Armies (including onto and off ships)
    Resolving of Land Battles
    Adding up Income (Tax, Theft and Caravan)
    Subtract Upkeep for Units
    Unsupported Units
    If you dont have enough gold to pay the upkeep for all your units, then you will have a negative balance for the turn, and in your next turn's orders must specify which units it was that you didnt support and they will be disbanded.
     
  2. RoddyVR

    RoddyVR Veteran Board NESer

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Map:
    Rome - Erez
    UK - MattyB2
    Russia - Tossi
    Spain - Pontiuth Pilate
    Turkey - Finmaster
    France - Jason The King
    Norway - Erik Mesoy
    Africa - gruban

    Open:
    Austria
    Germany
     
  3. RoddyVR

    RoddyVR Veteran Board NESer

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    Questions and Answers.
    assuming there will be some rules questions. will try coppying them here so its easier to find.

    Do I have to pay upkeep for an army I buy this turn [2 gold to buy an army, 1 for upkeep]? If so that would use up the 3 gold right away.
    no. you pay upkeep at the beggining of the turn AFTER you've gotten your income for that turn. so this turn, you can get an army and still have 1 gold to spend on other stuff (like a caravan if you want).

    Are ROPs allowed?
    No. Sorry. ROP Rapes are too hard to manage. You'll just have to "invade" allies. ;)

    What should my orders look like?
    List the military units you're buying. How many in which province (only those with citys and military bases can build units).
    if you're buying ships that could go into 2 sea territories, say which one.
    (and how many caravans/escorts you're gonna use if you want).

    moving orders for units. again, you have to list each unit (or group if a lot are moving from same place to same place)
    if you're moving to any white provinces, put down if you want to claim them.

    list how many caravans you're sending to which nation (remember, not more then their nation's tax income)
    and how many escorts your sending to each (if any).

    your stealing instructions (how much you wanna steal from which nation in case they send caravans to your nation).

    Can I disband armies and fleets i no longer want to use?
    yes. but only if the unit isnt doing anything else that turn. so if your orders say "i have two armies in territory X. diband one and attack with the other into.....", then its ok, but you cant say "attack with the 2 armies and after the fight, disband them.

    Can newly built fleets take on armies if the armies were built earlier?
    yes, the new fleet cant move (and cant unload armies cause it dont have any on it), but it can take "veteran" armies onboard.
     
  4. RoddyVR

    RoddyVR Veteran Board NESer

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    i'm hoping to do updates twice a week (maybe wednesday and weekend) but we'll have to see how long it takes to get most of the orders. first update might take a while if people dont join quickly.

    I'd suggest PMing your orders (so others dont see them). please put you nation name and the word "Orders" in the subject, cause i'll try NOT to read them till i do the update (in case i have to do orders for one of the nations).

    you can join now. you start with 3 gold (for your starting city).
     
  5. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    Lod, Israel
    I'll take Rome, area 30 :) Orders are being sent as we speak...
     
  6. MattyB2

    MattyB2 Bang!

    Joined:
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    457
    ill take UK orders are ummm guna be sent ...nnnnnnnnNOW!
     
  7. tossi

    tossi Der kleine Prinz

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    Deutschland/Norge
    I claim Russia. Orders will come soon!
     
  8. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    What the heck, I claim Spain ;)

    Two questions:

    1. Do I have to pay upkeep for an army I buy this turn [2 gold to buy an army, 1 for upkeep]? If so that would use up the 3 gold right away.

    2. How do I make a profit on a caravan if I spend 1 gold to send it, 1 for an escort, and only get 2 gold back?
     
  9. tossi

    tossi Der kleine Prinz

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    Thats the trick! You can´t escort every caravan you send. Therefore you have to calculate to get any profit.
     
  10. Finmaster

    Finmaster The White Ghost

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    aww I'm already in too many nesses.. but.. what the heck, I've always wanted to play this kind of a board game NES!

    Ill join as Turkey! (area 48) :)
     
  11. RoddyVR

    RoddyVR Veteran Board NESer

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    1. no. you pay upkeep at the beggining of the turn AFTER you've gotten your income for that turn. so this turn, you can get an army and still have 1 gold to spend on other stuff (like a caravan if you want).

    2. if you spend 1 gold on a caravan and send it out without an escort,you'll get 2 gold the next turn. once you're sending out more then one caravan (like 9 to a single nation) you can include some escorts some times to see if that nation is stealing from you.
    escorting this turn would be completely useless (even if you could afford it) since if your one caravan IS stolen, you'll know it anyway (wont get any income for it) so having the escort wont give you anything you didnt already have. (that's always true if you're sending caravans to only 1 nation).
     
  12. RoddyVR

    RoddyVR Veteran Board NESer

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    well, this is very encouraging.
    5 people signed up (updated nation list into the first map post)
    and it seems i've got orders from all 5 already.

    THANKS!!!!
    lets give it a little more time to see if more people sign up. i've got at least a couple in mind that i'll try to get to sign up. ;)
     
  13. Jason The King

    Jason The King Deity

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    Bay Area, California
    Okay, France for me.
    Orders when I get home, I must go in like 10 minutes.

    To Britain and Spain
    From France

    Our lands are in danger from the eastern power block. Should we join in an alliance, say the WEPP, Western Europe Protection Pact, then we could possibly wade through existance unhurt. If we stick together, it will be very unlikely that we are attacked. How do you respond?

    To Spain
    From France

    Please do not expand past the Pyrennes, and we shall do the same. Agreed? Also, how about a Free Trade Agreement? This will allow unlimited trade across our borders. How bout it?

    To Italy
    From France

    We propose that the Riviera goes to France, and Milan goes to Italy. Agreed?
     
  14. Sgt.Hellfish

    Sgt.Hellfish King of the Oceans

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    Manchester, England
    sorry i cant now
     
  15. Erik Mesoy

    Erik Mesoy Core Tester / Intern

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    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    I'll take Norway
     
  16. MattyB2

    MattyB2 Bang!

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    To France
    From England
    AS much as i would like i would have to decline your gracious offer, alliances are too substansial
     
  17. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    So, if I understand this correctly, you don't pay upkeep on armies and navies that you buy this turn? In other words, you pay upkeep next turn when they can move, and every turn after that?

    The caravan system is still messed up ;) I'll never send a caravan with an escort, because I profit 0 if it comes back and I'm 2 gold in the red if someone steals it. Why bother?

    TO ALL
    Spain is not yet ready to make alliances but we wish to extend cordial relations to our neighbors England, France, and Italy.

    We would like to set up a trade agreement with all of you whereby each of us passes our caravans to someone else - in a circle. Thus risk is minimized because if someone's caravans are stolen they automatically know which country did it - so we don't need escorts. For example Spain sends caravans to Italy, who sends to England, who sends to France, who sends to Spain, etc.

    We should all have 1 gold free this turn so we can set up a trade round right now ;) does everyone agree? Please respond ASAP!
     
  18. Jason The King

    Jason The King Deity

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    Perhaps the use for escort is to find out who is stealing ur trade ;). Say I am trading with Germany, England and Spain. I keep having one caravan stolen. Instead of canceling two routes each turn to find the culprit, I can send an escort with each one and alternate each turn to see ;).

    To Spain and England
    From France

    We are sorry to hear that you do not wish an alliance. Perhaps a NAP and trade agreement will gain your favor?
     
  19. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    I would very much like to establish a trade agreement with England, France, Italy, etc. The goal of such an agreement would be to remove the risk of theft and allow everyone in the region to prosper by arranging a "trade circle". Each nation would send ALL their caravans only to the next chain in the circle - thus if caravans are stolen their owner knows who stole them [so it's not necessary to send escorts]. The entire circle would pledge to punish anyone who steals caravans.

    The circle I envisioned was:

    Spain sends caravans to Italy.
    Italy sends caravans to England.
    England sends caravans to France.
    France sends caravans to Spain.

    Thus if Italy doesn't get all their money, they know England must have been stealing caravans. Then Spain, France, and Italy invade England :D Of course with the threat of war nobody will steal caravans and all our money will be safe.
     
  20. Jason The King

    Jason The King Deity

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    To Spain
    From France

    Works for me.
     

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