1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Road to War - Historical

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Road to War' started by kiwitt, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. whaleman

    whaleman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    65
    Thanks. I have a question. In Road to War instead of the Religions Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. the Religions are Communism, Fascism, and Democracy, each with a symbol next to them like the religions in a regular game of civ. I was wondering if I could download those government styles to replace the religions in civ. For instance: the first one to discover State Property founds Communism, the first one to discover Fascism founds Fascism (obviously), and so on. So is this possible?
     
  2. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
  3. whaleman

    whaleman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    65
    Alright, but how can I delete the religions to make them Communism, Fascism, and Democracy? Could I get those files from Road to War somehow?
     
  4. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
  5. whaleman

    whaleman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    65
  6. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
    Anyone interested in two "Hot-Seat" save games.

    1) Allies - August 1939
    2) Axis - August 1939

    You can then load these save games at the real start WWII.
     
  7. whaleman

    whaleman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    65
    Sure. Can I be the USSR?
     
  8. xAttackAttackx

    xAttackAttackx Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Hey,, i found this pages on a link. So all i know is what im reading here. Im new to the whole forum thing anyways. But is this mod going to be for Civ5 too? thanks.
     
  9. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
    I'll be waiting for Civ 5 to stabilize somewhat. The Code and issues with Civ 5 are still too major to warrant any conversions just yet. The Original author of RtW (Dale) will not be doing one, so I will have to re-write this completely from scratch, which will be a lot of work. It it is best I hold this development until later. However, I am more inclined to develop a WWIII (Nato vs Warsaw Pact) European Scenario (1956 to 1996) for Civ 5 anyhow.
     
  10. xAttackAttackx

    xAttackAttackx Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Well dang. I was really hoping to play some wwii on civ5. Actually its the first civ game ive played haha. So i might go get 4 just for this mod. If you need any help on re doing this mod for civ5 let me know. I'll be happy to help in any way i can. If you even decide to day it. Haha. Well thinks for the reply man. Cheers.
     
  11. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
  12. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
  13. Wosret84

    Wosret84 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    22
    So I've decided to jump into this mod. Germany seems naturally the most interesting to play as, due to the fact that it has a smaller and therefore more manageable territory (Russia is just overwhelming in the number of units). But I have a couple of questions.

    Germany starts the game over the limit in certain units, such as infantry divisions and army corps. I understand that in order to build more, I'd have to lose units below the threshold. However, naturally when Austria and Czechoslovakia are annexed, I will get still more infantry divisions, yes? Say the limit is 75 divisions and I have 98, and then I get like 15 more from Austria, am I allowed to absorb those divisions up to 113? Or do they just disappear?

    Also, if I play in Hot Seat and include Austria and Czechoslovakia, if I build buildings in their cities, will they still be there after annexation, or would they need to be built again? If I lose them, I may just concentrate on wealth (Since they are going to be annexed anyway, I would probably keep the science rate at zero, and gift all the gold to Germany right before annexation).

    My next question is this: Some units have respawn abilities, particularly the Russian ones. I understand the units respawn in the capital, in this case Moscow. When a capital is captured, the nation shifts its capital to another city. Will destroyed units continue to respawn at the new capital, or will taking Moscow (or Berlin for that matter) prevent further unit respawn?

    I noticed you've put mountains up to block a pre-May 1940 invasion of France. That's pretty clever. In the regular RTW I always made sure to finish the Polish campaign in one turn and then straight away attack France through the Maginot Line, usually overrunning the country before May 1940 - In fact, I used to carefully attack France in such a way that I would capture every single mainland French city on the same turn, using tanks to fan out across the country and knock down all units in every city except for one, and utilize paratroopers. That way I'd own European France and the Vichy French nation would be a purely African entity. My question regarding France is this -- I read in your strategy thread that if you can, avoid taking Paris too quickly. Is taking Paris the Vichy trigger in this mod? Because I know in regular RTW you had to take a certain number of cities to trigger it.

    I may still attempt an invasion of France before May 1940 if I can successfully use paratroopers to take a city and then air-transport powerful ground formations. That will require a weakly defended French city within paradrop range, and the move-after-drop function will be essential, since paratroopers would be fodder for any counterattack. How does air-transporting units work? It seems unrealistic to air-transport, for example, and entire army group plus powerful panzer formations in a single fortnight, expecially to a recently captured enemy city that's only tenuiously held by a few paratroopers.

    A similar paratroop invasion of England may be possible. I definitely want to take a shot at invading England, but without transports that may be difficult. Knocking England out before the USA joins the war would be a decisive victory.
     
  14. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
    Thanks for your feedback ... I try to answer your questions. Over 2 years of research work has gone into this ...

    Yes ... Germany does get these extra forces and it will also impact on it's limits. i.e. because it get's 4 Czech Panzer Divisions it can not build in more Panzer Armees, because they are in the same class. What is best is to "Gift" these and others that limit unit build options to another player. Vichy France is a good choice because it starts with virtually no troops and the donation of these troops helps them greatly.

    I choose to build as many building as I can and then when Germany annexes them additional build options are available and new building can be added to the them.

    They respawn into whatever the capital is in place. NOTE: this does make the capital also harder to take.

    I'm glad you like my idea of the mountain range blocking the way to France early. This is to try to keep it as historical as possible. You'll find you can not take France in one turn in my mod, due to the slower speed of the tanks. And yes the other trigger is there also, so it it best to get into as deep as possible and then make a mass attack all the remaining cities. The Belgian border towns are not included in the triggers.

    Dale discussed his reasoning in his early development threads, which boiled down to the fact that USA would be nerfed, if it could not air transport it's forces. Also the only way to stop a unit being air-transportable is to give it 0 movement points.

    On a side note I was playing the allies recently and I left a couple of my French towns undefended and the AI did exactly that.

    Yes it would. Hence why I have made transports a late game tech for the German's. My latest map has USA have this tech already, so when they join the alliance they can make amphibious landings as soon as it can.
     
  15. Wosret84

    Wosret84 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    22
    Nice, thanks for the informative reply. I've got a good bit of gaming under my belt in the last day and I've found a few interesting things.

    I did what you did and built buildings in Austria and Czechoslovakia primarily, but I also made sure to max out both nation's cavalry units (5 each) since they'll be given to Germany, allowing me to have a total of 15 units. I also started building reserve infantry. As for the Czech tanks, I made sure to use them in the Polish campaign frequently - one of them was destroyed. The idea being eventually they will be gone and won't count against my cap.

    An airborne invasion of France is possible. I attacked Poland first using mostly the smaller units - mainy Panzer divisions, Panzergrenadier divisions and Panzer Corps (which Berlin was churning out for most of the pre-1939 turns) while I used my paratroopers to take a single French city and air-drop the really big units - Army groups, Panzer armies, etc. I managed to replicate the "take every European French city" strategy, though not all in the same turn, since I just saved Paris for last.

    It's worth noting that it wasn't the speed of the tanks that enabled me to do it all in one turn in the original RTW, it was just a combination of using Stukas to lower city defense values to zero and soften up units, and attack cities over a series of turns until each city had one of my units next to it with just one enemy unit left (and it would take several turns to set that up) and then attack all at once.

    At this point I decided to give the Russians a more serious look, and I've noticed a couple of things. Firstly, they have a huge negative cash flow right at the start even with 0% research, and given that they start out well behind in tech (which makes sense), makes it hard to make any progress, as very soon you'll be out of money. Does this eventually resolve itself (population increase, building cash-boosting buildings, etc.)?

    The other thing I noticed, and have a slight problem with (with all due respect to the research done) is the speed of some of the Russian units. Particularly Tank Armies, with a speed of just 1, unlike the smaller armored formations with a speed of 2 (and their counterpart German Panzer armies with 2, or 3 for several of the pre-existing ones). Tank armies don't exist at the start (which is absolutely realistic) but by the time the Red Army juggernaut got rolling in 1943 and 1944 when they had tank armies, the Soviets had become just as good as, if not BETTER than, the Germans in fast, deep envelopment moves - there were times, particularly in the summer of 1944 during Operation Bagration, that Soviet forces were advancing at a rapid pace - nearly 200 miles from just west of Smolensk to just east of Warsaw from mid-June to mid-August (and destroying 300,000 German troops in a giant encirclement near Minsk).

    I realize it may be a bit late for making changes, but, the way I see it, it will be extremely hard as Russia to actually defeat Germany in a realistic 4-5 year timespan, if only because of the slow speed of the units and how weak the more advanced Russian units are relative to their German counterparts. It seems reasonable that if Germany fails to defeat Russia quickly in 1941 or even 1942, and Russia is allowed the time to develop proper Tank Armies that are strong and fast enough to go up against the Panzers, then Russia should steamroll across eastern and central Europe in 1944 and 1945 (as happened in history). Basically, Tank armies should match up well numbers wise (strength and speed) with Panzer Armies, the difference being Russia doesn't have any given to it (unlike Germany) and can only build them later in the war after reaching the required tech. This building process would also mimic the way in which the huge industrial and economic power of the Soviet Union (second only to the USA at the time) was able to out-produce Germany.
     
  16. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
    Thanks for your feedback.

    As to your France Tactic that is what I do as well. Essentially bypass all the cities, and get myself into a position to do the all cities at once attack.

    One of the problems I noted with the original RtW, was that Russia could be defeated in 3-4 turns, wich was hardly realistic, so I set about trying to fix that. Initially, by giving it lots of units, then cheap units and finally lots of cities as well and my most recent change was givng all it's units the reborn promotion (Note: some rifle corps were recreated even 3-4 times throughout the period of the war.)

    As to Russian tech development, yes it is slow, and this was done on purpose to reflect the impact of the "purges" and poor level of technical expertise in the majority of the population. (NOTE: This changed later in the war.) I have played Russia and I did find it an additional problem it had to cope with that Russia and others did not have to.

    The reasoning behind the initial lack of speed of the Tank Armies, as you correctly pointed out, they Russian had to develop proper Tank Army Training and Tactics, it's not just being able to build good designs (e.g. the T-34, JS-2, etc.). When they win a few battles and earn some generals, these are then assigned to lead the Tank Armies which will enable them to have the Morale Promotion and give then an additional movement point. This also reflects the improvement in leadership over that time. As to your example of speed of movement, mid June to mid-August, that equals 4 turns and a Tank Army can cross 8 squares and even more it it uses roads, in that time. However, for the most part the campaign was one of attrition and the Russians had plenty of men to be able to do that. In addition, a Russian Tank Army only costs 800 whereas a Panzer Army costs 9460 and a Panzer Corps 3830, so the Russians are able to churn out a lot more units and all the Russian units have very low costs to produce. Also you need to remember that a Russian Corps was the equivalent in size to a typical western Division.

    Remember I said the best way is to play "Hot Seat Mode" (as you played above). The default difficulty level for each nation is "Prince" (i.e. no bonuses and no negatives). In my current campaign that I am playing I have set "Germany" to Prince and every other nation to "Settler". This brings me to my next point; you can tweak the game anyway you want in that you can set varying difficulty levels for each nation. In my own game as I have yet to play Germany at higher difficulty levels than "Prince", whereas others have played at Monarch or maybe even higher ,as my focus is on the "standard" game.

    If you want to get an idea of what it took to develop it to this stage, I suggest you read these threads
    KiwiTT's Road to War
    KiwiTT's Road to War - Errors and Fixes
    Road to War - Historical - this thread.

    I have received a lot of input from many people including Alpha and Beta testers, which allowed me to refine the final product which I released in September 2010. And I am still noticing a few small errors in this European Scenario and may release a service pack, but in the meantime I am enjoying playing the scenario as it is.

    Now I could "tweak" this scenario to the "nth-degree", which will give endless refinements, but at some point I need to rule a line in the sand and move on to my next Project - (Road to War - Historical - Pacific Scenario).
     
  17. whaleman

    whaleman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    65
    Hey KiwiTT, I was wondering if you know how I could remake the origional Road to War. I want to modify it so in a similar matter to "fall of France" if the Allies take all the Italian cities in Africa, and Rome, that Italy would become a neutral country, and their leader would change. Because if i'm right, this is what happened in 1943 when Mussolini was chased out of Italy after the Americans and British took Rome. So if you can tell me how to do that, that would be great.
     
  18. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
    You need to learn Python coding.
     
  19. whaleman

    whaleman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    65
    alright, thanks. I've been able to learn the basics of modding, including changing text, changing music, adding leaders, etc. How much of that will help me with this?
     
  20. kiwitt

    kiwitt Road to War Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,548
    Location:
    Auckland, NZ (GMT+12)
    TBH: Not much. Python coding is quite tricky, it is best if you look at the tutorials in the Civ 4 C&C forum and of course Modiki
     

Share This Page