Rock, Paper, Scissors Defense Question

[fdrpi]

As we all know, units in the game are balanced (mostly) in a way so that it forms a cycle. Chariots kill axes, axes kill spears, and spears kill tanks, I mean chariots.

I also have noticed that when attacking a stack, the unit with the best chance of winning will be chosen as the defending unit. This is why the unit switches when you click on different units.

This is very annoying, but I can see why it is there. However, it sort of nullifies benefits units get versus others, because they are almost guaranteed to never get to utilize them unless the stack is not very diverse or you've beaten it to a pulp with collateral.

So how can you get around that mechanic as a player?

 

[rah]

Plan for the initial losses that you're going to take until your offensive units start getting the advantage.
Or just use enough collateral damage units that it doesn't matter what your attacking with.
Assuming that you aren't going to lose any units is a bad plan.

 

[fdrpi]

True. Thanks!

 

[lymond]

Ofc, that defensive mechanism works for the human as well. The very fact that is exists is helpful despite the annoyance of going up against a stack. Siege is usually the answer to the problem, and later airships, fighters and things that go BOOM!

 

[Sian]

with enough siege you can win nearly nomatter what the cleanup crew is ... i faintly remember someone posting a conquest win only using Archers, longbowmen, crossbows and catapults (and prehaps Trebs on the last one)

 

[vicawoo]

It makes for a stronger defender advantage, which would otherwise make the game who can secretly build slightly more units than the opponent.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

So how can you get around that mechanic as a player?

Defending units get specialized promotions (cover, shock, formation, city garrison).
Attacking units get generic promotions (combat, city raider).

And then there's the case of drill and flanking promos... situational ?

In any case, the mechanics described mostly affects the way one should promote his units, imho.

 

[s.bernbaum]

Pre siege, promote your units to make up for their weaknesses, such as giving chariots and horse archers the 25% against melee bonus (for example). You still need to bring extra and expect to lose some of them but using promotions properly, you will lose fewer units. Often it pays to attack with the unpromoted unit first, lose it, and then use the promoted unit to kill the weakened defender.

 

[Handel]

speaking about sacrificing unit which do collateral damage I wondered which is better - to start with the catapult (for example) which has the best chances or the worst chances? It is presumed you are going to lose it anyway so my first thought is to start with the worst chances and then to use the best chances catapult against the injured unit... *if* the first catapult succeeds to injure her unit of course which often does not happen.

 

[vicawoo]

speaking about sacrificing unit which do collateral damage I wondered which is better - to start with the catapult (for example) which has the best chances or the worst chances? It is presumed you are going to lose it anyway so my first thought is to start with the worst chances and then to use the best chances catapult against the injured unit... *if* the first catapult succeeds to injure her unit of course which often does not happen.

Same way as a choose between barrage and city raider:
check the odds of winning for both. If the city raider odds are significantly higher , pick it. If it's about the same, there's no point wasting the strong one.

 

[RakeWorm]

The rock, paper, scissors element seems to be mostly there for defensive needs. For offense, upgrade your rock to a boulder and pound away.

"Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a sledgehammer." - Maj. Holdridge

 

[rah]

'Sledgehammer' Bah. Cannons

 

[Heathcliff]

I use to go for mounted units and go for the weaker AI cities first. Often you can find cities with only 3-4 defenders. But in other cities they have 10 defenders.
I use to take the weak cities and then vassalize the AI.

I guess you can go for siegeweapons too, but I find that often your attacks become so slow then that your units get outdated before you can vassalize the AI.

 

[noto2]

Yes this is a failing in the design of combat for Civ 4. I love this game, don't get me wrong, but the combat is quite abysmal. Oh well, at least it's not as bad as Civ 5
Okay seriously, though, what the counter system does is it forces you to (usually) have a mixed army which forces you to have different technologies to build different units. Also skirmishes play out differently from major battles.

 

[plasmacannon]

Also, check the UU for your civ, you might have one with an advantage in the rock-paper-scissors game.
1) The Greek Phalanx gets +100% Defense vs Chariots, directly countering the +100% that Chariots get vs it.
2) The Numidian Calvary gets +50% vs melee. Great for attacking cities with mostly axe/spear/sword units.
3) Khmer Ballista Elehant targets mounted outside of a city, so the Spearman in the stack is useless vs you.
4) Cho-ko-nus do collateral too.