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Role Play Challenge: Qin Shi Huang the Coward

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by madscientist, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

    Joined:
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    Location:
    New York City
    Welcome to my next RPC game, Qin the Cowardly! These games are meant to be fun and educational. Here we are playing to the Chinese civilization reputation of having one of the greatest wonders of the world, The Great Wall! We plan to play an exceptional diplomatic game while turtling in our empire and see how large we can build it up by peaceful cultural expansion!

    We all know Qin as the classic back-stabber, and I plan to play him as the backroom schemer he really was. Add a little flavor as being a craven coward and you have the setting for what may be an interesting game.

    Now Qin is an absolute craven coward and will do anything to survive, including caving in to all demands that do not put him in danger. He also is too scared to go to war ever, and he will never send troops out of his cultural borders. He has decided early on to hide his empire behind the Great Wall, only settling future cities that start within his cultural borders!

    So onto the settings

    Big/Small map with normal continents.
    Monarch difficulty
    Marathon speed
    All victories are open
    City culture flipping after losing a city is also on, in case Qin loses some in battle.
    I did enter WorldBuilder and added stone. I also know we have iron within the capital (Yes, Qin is cheating already:D)

    Rules!


    1) Qin MUST build the Great Wall!!! If he misses out on this he must regenerate. It also MUST be built before 1500 BC.

    2) Qin cannot settle any cities outside his culture borders AFTER the Great Wall is built. SO I minimally want to get 2 or 3 settlers out FAST before the Great Wall get's built!

    3) Once the GW is built we can settle more cities as long as the settler goes to a spot within the Chinese culture borders. Thus we probably want the early citis a little more spread out!

    4) Qin can never capture an enemy city, attack one, or even send troops outside his culture borders.

    5) Qin can never declare war, and even has to defy the AP vote on this (if he can).

    6) He can never refuse a request except for declaring war or stopping trading.

    7) Qin needs to keep his power numbers fairly high while trying to maintain optimum diplomacy. This means adopting religions and favorite civics for diplomacy even at the cost of the best interest of his people.

    8) Lastly, as with Mao we will try and promote Chinese espionage once again.

    And our Grand Coward



    And the start



    Gotta say I love this start, even if I had not added the stone!

    We start with agriculture and mining. I say BW/masonry/wheel ASAP, a worker first then warriors and settlers!
     
  2. Jaaboo

    Jaaboo Prince

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    Jan 3, 2008
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    Nice start. Woods, stone (well duh) early happy and pseudo-early happy and some good river tiles.

    This should be fun to watch - I might even try a shadow as well.
     
  3. AndrewN

    AndrewN Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2003
    Messages:
    574
    Location:
    Stanwell, UK
    You're not on a river again :( What is it with the map generator and those little lakes it gives you rather than extending the river 1 square. Would you consider a move?

    Nice capital :D lots of production, lots of food.
     
  4. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    419
    Two irrigated corns makes this super powerful already. I say get out a worker, farm those corns, build a warrior escort, and then full blast worker/settlers.

    Tech BW then The Wheel(I don't think the stone is connected) and Masonry.
     
  5. Stewie0416

    Stewie0416 Who Cares?

    Joined:
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    Location:
    USA
    Wow, nice start. The GW will go faster with stone, in your bfc! nice!
     
  6. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

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    He WBed it in.
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Rigged start! I'm tempted to switch game speed to quick and just rape space :p. Dual corns, AT LEAST decent production, and a decent bureaucracy capitol (his favorite civic, by the way).

    The ONLY way this goes sour is an AI culture win. It is for this reason that I'm considering culture myself.
     
  8. Loknar

    Loknar Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
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    53
    Nice Start! I'd move 1E though.
     
  9. Pieman

    Pieman Prince

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    I agree, 1E to get at that grassland.
     
  10. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

    Joined:
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    With two irrigated corn tiles in your BFC I expect no less than ten cities settled by 1500 BC. :p

    I also recommend 1E for river access. With a small compact empire you're going to want your cities to be the best they can be, and a levee will be superb with all these rivers running around.
     
  11. EEE_BOY

    EEE_BOY Deity

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    move the warrior 2 W while settler moving 1 E, if warrior doesn't dicover anything interesting ,settle 1E; and if a hidden food resource, we can always move back to the original place. keep the option for both open...

    ps: why marathon speed? epic is already slow enough...
     
  12. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    5,594
    Two irrigated corns?!? This is a superb capital already.
     
  13. ANewGuy

    ANewGuy OCC Specialist

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    May 27, 2008
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    Location:
    Texas
    Hm. Worker First, Improve Capital, Warrior-Settler-Warrior-Settler while the other city cranks out other necessary stuff.
     
  14. CivCorpse

    CivCorpse Supreme Overlord of All

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
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    I wouldn't have added the stone to the BFC. I can usually get the Great Wall with civs that do not start with mining and that are not industrious. It gives you too much strength for all the other wonders besides the Great Wall.
    I like the start and may edit out the stone in WB...and settle 1E for later levies.

    if you keep the stone in the game. Go masonry, wheel then BW. you have the techs to keep your worker busy until you get BW. with stone and industrious you shouldn't need to chop out the wall.
     
  15. IPEX-731BA5DD06

    IPEX-731BA5DD06 Deity

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    Settle 1 east, you still gain the stone in first ring, or city, 2 corn and 1 elephant.

    This give you the advantage of Levies on 11 tiles, that's 11 hammers when all are worked. Even with 100 Hammers in capital, that's a 11% increase from 1 building.

    Plus the food, production, health etc are other benefits.
     
  16. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Not having the patience for this on marathon, I switched it to normal:

    Played the entire game:

    Spoiler :
    The early game was everything. After that it was generic and incredibly boring for readers, so I'll just skip it and let mad do his usual coolness instead.

    Like a rebel with no purpose, I settled in place. Something about not wanting to lose turns or think or whatever.

    Teched improvement techs, then archery, then masonry of course. I was able to chop out 3 settlers, the last one was plopped down with the wall in queue, I got it pretty close to 1500 BC but still managed to get it in time (and actually get it):



    I spaced cities out FAR. The idea was to block a bit and to claim the golds since that can only help with the :) bonus and commerce to pay for distanced settling. Unfortunately this wouldn't totally block, although as we'll see this didn't matter (I wound up flipping 5-6 cities)!

    After the wall it was standard fare: Stone + IND = easy pyramids, so I got those. I also grabbed hanging gardens (why not? They build in 4 turns on normal) en route to bureaucracy:









    Not bad for 1 AD.

    So now what? At the time I wasn't sold on a victory condition, so I opted to run up the lib path pretending I'm one of those super players:



    Early wall and settling distance = GPP dilution which slowed me down, still could have had lib around 700 AD but instead delayed it and took:



    Not record setting, but given the situation acceptable (sticking new cities in culture borders led to some suboptimal and delayed placements...oh well). This isn't good news for monarch AIs. After teching out biology (and getting the free great merchant off eco), I noticed hammy pulling some culture focus. How do you prevent the AI from going cultural without attacking it?! Well, I thought of either bribing (no go) OR COPY THE HELL OUT OF IT.

    That's right, already having SM and being ahead of everyone, I shot like a rocket straight toward mass media like the noob culture whore AIs, grabbing every modern culture wonder in the game. After that I got medicine and founded sushi, traded for resources, and teched to AL to spam infantry.

    I turned the slider off after that and tuned up the culture. This late wonder/sushi approach isn't the optimal approach to going culture but it will work, as it nerfs away the AIs only method of going culture, and a late 1800's finish is still faster than monarch AIs will manage in terms of space:





    The key for me was mercilessly tech racing the AI. A lot of them were still waiting on civil service when I had access to liberalism. I LOVE bulbing now, no wonder top players advocate the proper GP farm usage. Stealing the noob culture tactics off the AI secured it!

    Note that my gold next to Augustus was one of the culture cities. Looks awful for culture but it had spammed some wonders so it had a lead on other cities. With bio farms, sistine, and sushi, it was still well over 800 CPT at the end.
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    He might want to chop out settlers though, given the rules.
     
  18. NoDot

    NoDot Warlord

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  19. EEE_BOY

    EEE_BOY Deity

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    @ NoDot: what level are you playing ??? try found 7 religions on monarchy+
     
  20. dubrown

    dubrown Prince

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    By reading the link it seems it was on Prince, it's perfectly possible on prince to get all religions. With the right circumstances it'll likely be possible even on Monarch but the chance of loosing one early is pretty big.
     

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