Role Play Challenge: SeaFaring Victoria

[madscientist]

Welcome to my second RPC game. After the Great Kahn I mentioned doing Washington next but opted out of that for the moment. Instead I am going about the RPC game a little different here. I will attempt to play a game where I rely on what I am calling a "Trade Route Economy" for demonstration purposes, and to see if I can actually run one of these deliberately from the beginning. I am no going to going to impose many restrictions, well actually none but I will have certain goals to try and meet. The idea is to run a game with "limited" cottaging and trying to restrict specialists to one city as a GP farm. I am also going to try and exploit Victoria's Imperialistic trait on the high seas with massive privateers for GG production. I am interested in my own conditions rather than English history, and I do not plan to narate in a historical or dramatic fashion.

So here are my ideas, please feel free to make suggestions.

1) We are going to try and get maximum commerce from the sea, resources, trade routes, and an occasional cottage.
2) We are going to found as many cities as possible on the coast, although if absolutely neccessary we will build a landlocked city.
3) We will beeline The great Lighthouse, Oracle (for metal casting slingshot), and colossus.
4) We will delay switching to a CE but will do it if need be.
5) Diplomacy is a high priority (we will try to avoid religions for this reason) but will do what needs to be done.
6) We will build a stronge navy, particularly privateers.
7) Any civics are fair game.

EDIT: We will consider the Temple of Artemis

Settings

Difficulty: Monarch (I can usually win here and there are no real limitations)
Marathons Speed
Snakey Big/Little constinents
High sea level
Temperate climate

I'll post the start in a bit. I will make sure it is on a coast.

Let's see if I can get an intentional TE to work!

Here is the start: Suggestions?
Beginning save is attached

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Don't forget Temple of Artemis either.

 

[LlamaCat]

great idea, I might try this too. I once had a massive trade economy going with Victoria so I assume you will try to make as much gold per turn in trades from the other civs as well? this would tie nicely into your theme I think, and of course it would be interesting to see how you handle the diplomacy to get it done. what type of victory are you thinking? space is the most obvious but maybe you could pull out the rare United Nations win with a little luck and good diplomacy

 

[TRJS]

Nice idea. Always a fan of trying a new spin on economies.

Settle in place I guess. Pity no fish or clams.

 

[madscientist]

Yes, what ever gold I can get from trades. Also not mentioned I will try to get great merchant specialists so I can keep the science slider as near as 100% as possible. Victory depends on the situation, I am not against building a good trade network by pounding the opposition into submission if you get my drift.

I also have agressive AI on, so diplomacy could be interesting.

 

[madscientist]

I am thinking of moving the warrior east and perhaps teh settler one space south. If there are any seafood in teh fog to teh south I will lose them if I settler in place and I do not see anything worthwhile losing to the north. I'll still have fresh water, but the obvious issue is that the sourthern tile may have a resource like copper or horse that I lose the ability to work.

Techwise, as always with the English is to start with BW, then I think Agriculture and sailing. Add the wheel if I find copper very early.

Thought's?

 

[MrFelony]

I would also consider showing how trading spare resources for spare gold, and chosing the resources wisely, can help increase your economy while hindering theirs (though if they have hit happy limits and you help them bump it up you're actually helping them too). Also, I would def consider the ToA since the ToA/GL combo is pretty powerful. the combo itself gets you an extra 5/trun as well as a priest as opposed to just 1/turn and a priest or 2/turn (only considering the initial benefits to the cap). and i dont like this start one bit, but at least the wheat is irrigated. hopefully you find a coastal fish

 

[madscientist]

I don't like the start much either, which is why I hoping there's something more west and south of the bottom hill.

The ToA is pretty popular with the AI as is the GL. Not sure I will get both. If I go that way ir means probably forgetting the oracle/metalcasting slingshot, and self teching MC while hoping the oracle AI doesn't take it first. Let's see, Victoria has generally started near stone in alot of my games with her.

So going down the ideal wonder path, I need to get high production going in London, find copper (colossus), perhaps marble (ToA) and build a lighthouse fast. So techwise

BW/Agr/Wheel/sailing/masonry (start GL)/myst/poly (start ToA)/priesthood (start oracle)/pottery/Metal casting (if not from oracle) the start forge/colossus. If I get no copper I'll have to detour to AH and/or hunting/archery. If I get copper I think writing (libraries)/mathermatice/calender (bananas) ar enext but that's a little downstream.

It will help ALOT if I can get one seafood in London and perhaps be somewhat isolated form an AI to start.

 

[madscientist]

RPC: SeaFaring Victoria Round 1 (113 turns)

OK started the game. The map has good potential but looks a little shakey to start. Also met one AI who I have very limited experience with so I'll need some help on the diplomatic front!

Moved the warrior, then decided to take the computer's advice and settle in place. Looks pretty decent if a little light on early food.



Not much added from the start view except we have Jumbos on the river. Good for 2 food, 2 hammers, 3 commerce plus the ever popular war elephants. AH can be put on hold for a while.

Soon I meet our first rival, ah er Guest.



OK, I have dealt with Degaulle as only as a colony so any advice is appreciated. My feeling from reading other posts is that he is a pain who is difficlut to deal with. He's Industrious so I better start on my wonders soon.

WE start by teching BW and here is what I found as well as where I explored.



SO after BW I teched Agriculture (for teh wheat), sailing, and the wheel.

Build was Warrior/Worker/Workboat (for exploration)/Settler/Par tof the Barracks/Galley.

I got one of those tin events that gave my mine +2 hammer (now a total of 6). Huts popped a scout and 83gold. There is another hut on the western island.

I started sending the galley with a warrior and settler to the northern copper then the exploring workboat goes south and finds where Degaulle is.



So Degaulle is pretty close to my sourthen border and I believe I can lock him out by settling in that southern desert area claiming the 2 floodplains and 2 gold while keeping the city on the coast. Not great but would cut him off.

So I have a settler in a Galley that can go towards the Copper and perhaps axe-rush Degaulle fast. This could lose the race to those seafaring wonders (ToA and GL), but eliminate an inevitable threat.

I could send the settler south and block Degaulle hoping he stay tame long enough to get the needed wonders and build an army. So what do you all think?

 

[GeorgeF]

Wrong thread, sorry.

 

[TRJS]

Wrong thread, sorry.

Best advice so far.

Anyhow, I would say the blocking option looks good as you should be able to snag a gold mine.

 

[Gliese 581]

You could also settle 1SW of your proposed desert city on the plains hill and claim spices and cow (if you plan to take out De Gaulle and don't have to worry about culture wars). This city would get an immediate production boost for units and have a higher defence value. You could then settle another city 1NE of the rightmost goldmine to claim the gold, clam and wine.
Of course any blocking could be circumvented by galleys and there's a risk your empire becomes to spread out to wage effective wars and contain its economy..it would be great if you had more information on The Gaulle's tech and army situation.

 

[KMadCandy]

one seafood resource on the entire visible map so far! waaaaaaaaah

 

[madscientist]

I realized after I posted that the hill would be a better city as it blocks Degaulle completely at the loss of one workable gold mine (doubt I could sork both anyway with the amount of desert. I also would have to hold the city for a while with warriors, I am just asking for Degaulle to attack.

Now if I take the copper in the north I can get some good military while keeping the posibility of good relations with DeGaulle open (Again, is this possible with this AI).

The game is designed for a trade economy so I do not really want to pick a fight over some questionable land. Plus I need the open borders for trade and hammers for wonders. There is alot of good land but I need IW, workers and time to get past the jungle.

The lack of seafood is a real problem. It's not like the Great Kahn game where I just needed one source of horses to get moving. I was hoping for numerous seafood resources to drive the economy. If things go real poor with DaGaule I may consider a regen map, but I'll try my best to play it out.

 

[madscientist]

RPC: SeaFaring Victoria Round 2

I decided to send my the settler north to the copper. Two resons, I do not trust DeGaulee and prefer some metals sooner than later. Also I want to establish trade routes so if I can keep him alive, the better we are off.

So our second city



Should be good once we get IW and calender. We will farm everything here except the copper and dye.

Techwise during this part we went wheel/masonry/hunting/AH/myst/poly/preist/writing/IW/Pot/mC (current).

Hinduism is founded 2755, pretty slow maybe the ToA is within reach. Trun 175 both Stonehenge and Great Wall built.

Once a lighthouse is built in London I went for another settler, as the lower desert area was still open.



Got cities in both areas, nice! We start on the Great Lighthouse and



SWEET. Met another AI



This is the type of game where I wanted some Musas, Hatshepsut, etc.. Oh well. Judaism spread to one city which I refused, then Hinduism spread which is what Shaka is so I converted.

I dropped another city South of York to claim fish and horses (sorry, you can see where they are at the end). Need 4 cities to utilize the Great Lighthouse. Start builfing the Templ of Armetis (66 turns!!!) in London. Hopefully I can pop a Great Merchant in that city soon.

After Iron Working we find



Dang!!! And it's the only Iron close by. This may make war with the French inevitable, but maybe I can wait until I can bride Shaka into helping.

London's City Shot before the ToA.





London after ToA



Only a slight improvement in beakers and gold but that's early yet. The priest specialis helps with production and gold but I hope it doesn't affect the GM production.

SO a final map of the world



Note we have the horses but the iron is a real problem.

So, once metal casting finishes it's time for a forge and colossus in London. We have copper and hopefully the AI that took the oracle won't get it first. Next is Math and currency, followed by calender and perhaps compass or construction.

The big question is what to do with DeGaulle. Shake is on landmasses north of use, Degaulle to the south. Shaka built the pyramids, so he has gone too nuts with military and if we get MC fast triemes should hold him off a while. DO we try a culture approach to take the iron that way or is war inevitable. No open borders with Degaulle at the moment.

I need some suggestions regarding what to do with Degaulle.

 

[Killroyan]

Build up a small army if you ask me and take his iron city. You need the iron and you do not want a french city polluting your land now do you? Maybe even march on to Orleans so you can block him of completely.

About London it could use some improving. Wheat is not farmed yet. It nets you in 1 health which London is lacking. Build a cottage on the banana. Build the plantation later on.

Nice going on the great lighthouse and temple of artemis. Getting the colussus increases your sea tiles by a lot. Now only harbors and you are set. But where is all the sea food???? Incredible that there is so little sea food. Poor you.

 

[madscientist]

Build up a small army if you ask me and take his iron city. You want and you do not want a french city polluting your land now do you? Maybe even march on to Orleans so you can block him of completely.

About London it could use some improving. Wheat is not farmed yet. It nets you in 1 health which London is lacking. Build a cottage on the banana. Build the plantation later on.

Nice going on the great lighthouse and temple of artemis. Getting the colussus increases your sea tiles by a lot. Now only harbors and you are set. But where is all the sea food???? Incredible that there is so little sea food. Poor you.

Yeah, I think DeGaulle has got to be knocked back if not eliminated.

The wheat was farmed but I had one of those random locust plagues just before the ToA was finished and did not want to redirect to build a worker (other workers were too far away, the penalty for limited roads).

I am going to stall cottaging for now. I plan to beeline calender soon, too many plantation sites to passup.

The seafood sucks but what are we gonna do. There are some scattered seafood about and if I knock out DeGaulle I can expand more. Paris is fairly near and I bet DeGaulle has seafood (I'll check before we start warring).

 

[madscientist]

RPC: SeaFaring Victoria Part 3

OK, This round involved a brief war with DeGaule, 2 new Ais, teching and solifying the trade route economy.

First early we meet a new Rival



Well, another maniac. We open borders although I do not know exactly where he is.

Next on the menu, some iron curtousy of Degaulle.



Troops to the north and south, pretty standard although I lost about 3 axes. We take Rheims and take peace. While building up I keep putting more troops in Nottingham to secure the southern border.

We meet another AI



Finally, some one rational.

Soo we make a trade since Darius has alphabet.



Pretty decent trade. I also popped a great merchant that I sent of on a trade mission with Shake, got 3300 gold which funds 100% research for quite some time.

Techwise we finished metal casting/math/calender/compass/currency

Once currency is done we are finished teching our trade economy items and will move on to either construction so we can take out DeGaulle or COL for some courthouses, depending on whether we get a GM or GP as the next great person.

Speaking of which



We got the last piece of our trade economy tifecta. Between the three wonders and all those calender techs we are in good shape. No cottages built yet. Founded one more city east of Nottingham



Finally some views of our cities.











And the tech status, Oh by the way Stalin and Darius are at each other's throats.




So our trade economy is doing pretty good, 102 beakers @90% slider with alot of gold dtill and a GP due to pop real soon.

Here are my ideas, let me know what you thin

1) Next great person: GM goes on another trade mission to shaka. If it's a GP do we hold him and bulb theology founding a religion, or do we settle in London?

2) Build: London get's a Harbor, library and perhaps market next. Library in York. The rest build harbors/lighthouses/barracks/graneries with some city pumping out swordsmen. When we tech construction I will spam cats and start teching HB so we can get those war elephants.

3) DO we start harassing DeGaulle now or wait until we have cats and war elephants?

4) There is a decent barbarian city to take on the eastern shore, once I get cats I can take it to get some experience.

Any other ideas?

 

[madscientist]

SeaFAring Victoria: Part 4

Well, doesn't seam to be much interest in this game. I'll post one more round but if noone is interested I'll probably just shut the game down.

First thing is the tech order: Currency/Construction/Horseback Riding/COL, after that I am not 100% certain

First we make a trade with Darius



Shaka come arround with another soon after



And the techs at this time



Most of this time is building infrasctucture for the trade economy and building units to take on DeGaulle.

We also teched Fuedalsim and start building one longbow (with vassalage) in each city, Also vassalage allows us to build Triemes with a free promotion.

We have our stack of doom and get ready to go after DeGaulle.



DeGaulle has some longbowws but the cats and a few war elephants with all the axes/swords should be enough.

We took Orleans then moved on and took Paris. DeGaulle was more than willing to capitulate which is fine as we get a mandatory trading partner.

We also meet our last 2 adversaries, neither of which are particularly trustworthy. One a zealot, the other a classic backstabber.





We also got 2 more GMs which I sent off the Shaka. Shaka asked for a free tech and to stop trading with Darius, we I agreed to to keep up good relations with my best trading buddy.

And the final picture of the world



We just got to tech Optics before the save. The goal is to build some courthouses pronto and ships aplenty.

Looking to beeline liberalism next, hoping to get astonomy but could be tough with Darius in the mix.

So we have a vassaled DeGaulle, 2 psychos in Stalin and Shaka, 1 zealot in Charlemange, 1 backstabber in Qin, and One of the most dangerous techers in the game. What a mix.

 

[TRJS]

How are the trade routes looking?