1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Role Play Challenge: Stalin's Iron Fist!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by madscientist, May 19, 2008.

  1. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    6,954
    Location:
    New York City
    Welcome to my next RPC game, Stalin's Iron Fist! These games are meant to be entertaining as well as educational!

    In this RPC the goal and game are very simple, we MUST win a conquest victory as a One City Challenge (OCC). The first timne we tried a OCC game we got a lucky Diplomatic win as Agustus. Now we want the opposite, Stalin is the unltimate tyrant and must destroy the entire world, razing a destroying all in the path of the Red War Machine!!

    Rules
    1) Conquest only, although the other victory conditions are enabled for the AI!
    2) It's an OCC, only 5 national wonders are available.
    3) Stalin may enter worldbuilder to add the following resources if they not already present: Horse/Iron/Oil.
    4) Stalin does not share power, he may not take a vassal.

    Settings

    Pangea Small sized Map with pressed shorelines and medium sea level.
    Monarch difficulty
    Marathon Speed

    Being a Small map, there will only be 4 AIs

    So here is our Brutal Tyranical Leader



    And the start



    Close to a shore but not right on top. Corn/stone look good. Some hills, forrests, and farmable lands!

    Where to start! My only experience in OCC's was the Agustus game so I will need help here!
     
  2. matthewthegreat

    matthewthegreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    132
    I say settle in spot. Are you going to enter WB or are you going to have some one else do that so you don't see the map?


    Spoiler :

    There is no Iron or Oil near by but there are horses.
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,713
    Ohhhh I didn't realize we're playing a small map. That changes things. I might not go for mech infantry after all.

    Or hell, I might still. I'll have to see how tech/diplo goes. Before I play this I'm going to read up on OCC's though, because I've never done one before. Obviously national park/globe would be 2 of the wonders, probably ironworks also if we have iron (coal would be useless). Oxford is in for certain and we'll need to milk its power extensively. Wall street won't be necessary as maintenance in a OCC is probably a joke portion and income from settled specialists alone should keep the slider at 100% until someone has like 70 units out there or something. NE is a likely pick since we'll want the GP's ASAP.

    I'll be playing on epic where heroic epic is almost certainly redundant with the production power in such a city (might consider it on marathon in your game mad...1 unit per turn on marathon would be scary with something like tanks, see what you can do per turn).

    So far I'm thinking NE, IW, Oxford, Globe, NP. That's 5 I guess, maybe if we don't have iron I'll have to get creative with IW.

    Stone in the BFC means I'll be shooting for every early stone wonder since our compassionate leader is industrious here and we have it.

    I might get the AP for some experimentation with it :p. Clearly I can't win using it based on the rules, but it has other uses.

    I don't know if a tech lead is possible in OCC, but I have a plan if I get a certain unit first :). Hint: I'm going on a parade!
     
  4. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    Saarbruecken, Germany
    I've doctored the start slightly in World Builder to have it comply with the rules.
    Spoiler :
    Iron has been moved into the third expansion ring (if I've counted correctly) and Oil added on a nearby desert tile.

    Actually the resource situation is very nice for an OCC, the map is almost made for this ;-).

    Good luck with the game, here is my scenario file.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    Saarbruecken, Germany
    There is a thread/poll that I made a few weeks ago with some discussion on which wonders to put into an OCC city and why. Oxford and NatEpic are no-brainers, I also value the National Park very highly because it solves the health problem which is almost impossible to overcome otherwise (especially if you have only a small map with four civs and will be at war with all of them at some point, limiting your trade opportunities for health resources).

    It might be smart even to leave some of the non-hill forests in place in the BFC to get access to more specialists with the advent of the National Park. The forests can be lumbermilled should the need for additional production arise.

    The Globe Theatre is the biggest point of discussion, actually. It is totally feasible to get around the happiness limits without the Globe (I've seen it executed in a Deity OCC). War Weariness can be managed with Police State + Kremlin + Jail. The big problem are going to be the UN resolutions, most of which we'll have to defy (unless we control the UN ourselves and get elected Secretary General by some miracle; rather unlikely).

    Iron is guaranteed as per the rules (my scenario file enforces the rules, but Mad is going to edit in Iron anyway if he doesn't end up using it).

    Your selection of National Wonders is very solid, but it might be better to pick Heroic Epic instead of IW because we'll be producing mostly units during end-game anyway. On Marathon it is difficult to get 1 unit out per turn without the Heroic Epic (unless you skip the National Park so you have Coal for Ironworks).

    It might also be worthwhile to actually build West Point, because that might provide an extra promotion to a lot of units (depending on how many Great Generals are settled at that point). In that case probably the Globe Theatre should be skipped.

    To summarize: Oxford, National Epic and National Park are mandatory. That leaves two slots, which could be any combination of IW, HE, GT and West Point.

    I will probably try out HE + West Point and see if I can manage unhappiness without the Globe.

    The stone is a godsend since it greatly shortens the Pyramids build, and they are super important for an OCC. The Great Wall is also quite mandatory (we will probably fight defensive wars inside our borders).

    You can definitely win the Liberalism race comfortably on Monarch, only after Lib the AIs will start to get ahead. It's only a small map though, so it won't be overwhelming. I think being first to Rifles or Infantry even should be possible.
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,713
    I'm going to be a !@#$monger and play it with Mad's original save file. I want to die I think. No doctored resources for me!
     
  7. Al-Iskander

    Al-Iskander Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    USA
    Regarding vassals: the Soviet Union was really big on having satellite states, where the USSR could rule in practice if not in name, especially under Stalin in the post WWII era. The first was Mongolia(n People's Republic) well before the Great Patriotic War, and then Eastern Europe afterwards.

    For RP-reasons, I would suggest the following rule alterations (sorry if it's too late to include these and I'm just babbling):

    No vassals, UNLESS: Mongolia and/or Germany are in the game, then they MUST be vassalized.

    If Mao Zedong is in the game, he MUST be destroyed or vassalized. There is only ONE Vanguard of the Revolution, and any other claimants to that title must be dealt with appropriately.

    Other than that, the OCC is more or less right, with Stalin's whole Socialism in One State plan and all :)

    EDIT: Small map, only 4 AIs, right. Well, I *guess* you can get away with no vassals. One could look at this as Stalin consolidating control over the Party after his ascension to power or the Revolution, or maybe Eastern Europe after the War. Anyway, it's excusable :p
     
  8. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,095
    Location:
    Fantasyland
    the island Sea map works very well for OCC games. If you can combat the happiness issue without building GT. Then the HE + West Point would be a pretty good combo having that +4XP would be good. I normally always play epic speeds so building the HE is kind of pointless, because a military academy, along with IW gets right at the same effect. HE + military Academy = 150%, which would really help in Marathon
     
  9. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    Saarbruecken, Germany
    I've played it out with access to Iron but I think it's possible without Iron as well, because you get to Rifling fast enough usually. Ironworks is not essential, Heroic Epic will do the job. Late wonders can be rushed with Engineers.

    BTW I did the switch-a-roo trick with the AP to deny it to the AI :goodjob:
     
  10. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    Saarbruecken, Germany
    In my test game I've taken vassals. I'm excited to see how Mad will cope with the no-vassal rule. It can become a pain in the ass having to fight the whole world in the end, because the AIs obviously vassal to eachother. Maybe Vassal States should be disabled completely before starting the game. That would make more sense.
     
  11. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    Saarbruecken, Germany
    Not building the GT could become a problem (at least before Mt. Rushmore) because due to the no-vassal rule, happiness resources will be very scarce. Having the Statue of Zeus to ourselves will be quite essential as well without the Globe, for the same reason.

    Maybe not taking the National Park (comes pretty late anyway) is the answer, or one could simply not build West Point. West Point is only needed if there are not enough Generals around, but at least two are needed to make a medic and to build a Military Academy. That means to get the +4 XP that West Point would give at least four Great Generals are required. Not easy unless one declares early and has the AI suicide a lot of units within the Great Walls (I have not tried that tactic).
     
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,713
    I got to mech infantry and got killed while using them to troop spam :lol:. Diplomatic manipulation is usually a strong suit for me, but I flubbered it up this time.
     
  13. ChristofferC

    ChristofferC Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2007
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Linkoping, Sweden
    edit: might be a small spoiler in there (naming the opponents).

    Spoiler :
    Shadowing this game (the scenario at normal speed)...

    Lizzy was exterminated in ~700 AD and Hannibal will soon follow the same faith...

    Ragnar and Joao are at war, and so are Joao and Hannibal.

    This is really going my way. :)
     
  14. NintendoTogepi

    NintendoTogepi Noble Pacifist

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    915
    Location:
    Erie County, New York
    Settle in place.

    Get Pyramids, Great Wall and maybe Stonehenge up ASAP!
     
  15. stormyorky

    stormyorky Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    I want to try this. It will be a challenge for me because I usually play (and win) on prince, and Im not yet comfortable on monarch.

    I looked at the save and I think settling in place is a good idea. The wheat is tempting but then we would likely have to get desert tile or mountain+sea tile in BFC and thats not so good.
    We could settle 1S to get more river tiles in BFC and still get stone and corn.
     
  16. Orzio

    Orzio Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    408
    Try build the Great Wall and fight some defense wars for some nice Great Generals somethign that might also be good is attack key cites of the ai to make sure they wont run away in development since just taking all of there cites will free up huge areas that the other ai can settel.
     
  17. dubrown

    dubrown Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    438
    Location:
    Sweden
    I can't really see the use for Stonehenge in an OCC. It's quite alot cheaper to just build the monument... ;)

    Pyramids on the other hand is almost a must have. You can even survive without GW in an OCC as you'd want enough defense anyway but then, the Great spy might be nice to get and the bonus GG points.
     
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,713
    If I replay this there are 2 things I plan to do, and since they're general game knowledge/tactics and not spoilers I will post them here as suggestions to other players also:

    1. Manipulate religions. You want them all in different religions ideally, it will slow down tech and keep one side from going runaway. I failed to do this and my final opponent was HUGE, so big he beat my mech infantry down with industrialism stuff even though I could make one every turn :(. Anyone playing a OCC DEFINITELY wants to avoid the emergence of a monster AI, if going for conquest (Frustratingly I could have won this game via space or diplo, but that'd be against stalin's beliefs!).

    2. If I replay this, I'm going to try something weird, such as attacking much, much earlier, and not taking cities. I think if we pillage-camp all of the AI's successfully then we can tech comfortably until we can finish them off one-by-one. I mean vicious pillaging too, so that they don't even have roads. Keep the workers in the cities cowering in fear! It would never work on a standard map, but it might on a small one. I'm probably going to try it tonight. Scorched earth IS Stalin-like, and for a change it will be ENEMY lands.
     
  19. dubrown

    dubrown Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    438
    Location:
    Sweden
    Sounds like a good plan TMIT. My experience with OCC, although limited, but I've done a few is that if you let one AI grow too large, you'll have no chance no matter what to conquer him/her. One city has it limitations, the biggest one is to not be able to block of an AI from expanding when killing of another AI. Hypotetically you could plant an Iron curtain of units around each AI so they couldn't sneak past but that'd require a whole lot more units than you'll ever have available. So pillaging, keeping their strenght and research down sounds like a plan. And when killing them of, doing it quickly and plan to strike on most of them at the same time so to not let anyone grow too large.

    On the note of no horses/iron/oil the only one you can't actually survive without would be horses. If you have horses, Horse Archers early and then beeline for Cossacks (knights and Curiassers require iron but not Cavalry/Cossacks if I'm not mistaken) You can survive without iron, if you have copper it's no problem, if not, then defensive actions until Muskets and Cossacks would be required. Late game without oil isn't that hard either, Standard Ethanol can cure that or you just have to win without tanks.
     
  20. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    6,954
    Location:
    New York City
    Good discussions here. A few comments

    IRON: required for cannons/crossbows/knights/swordmen. I am pretty certain they are required for artillery and tanks also.

    I am also playing a dry run OCC/conquest as an off-line game, and victory does seam achievable. I will likely start the game Wednesday as I family business tonight.
     

Share This Page