Role Playing Challenge: Ghengis Kahn I

[madscientist]

(OK, so I have decided to try and jump into one of these challenges. I figure since Bear's game is done, one more won't clog things up. Noone discusses the Mighy Kahn too much on strategy, and to be honest noone even complains about him being a problem AI. Very dissappointing for the Mighty Kahn, Ruler of half the work at his peak. Even the ALC game used his bastard grandson. So to show his greatness, the Mighty Kahn has agreed to step up and show the world how a true Mongol leader operates!! Any comments from myself will be in parenthesis, otherwise it is from the Great Kahn).

The world or nothing says the Great Kahn!!

Game settings:

Prince (I currently play at Emperor but the Mighty Kahn insists on winning, and who am I to argue).
Large map (I usually play huge but will adapt so I can post saved games.)
Speed: Marathon (what I am confortable at this, and to be honest greatness cannot be rushed).
Map Type: Big/Little

Handicaps/Conditions:

1) Victory: Conquest, the Great Kahn will not accept anything else.
2) Vassals: The Great Kahn welcomes and well rewards vassals. Any civlization wise enough to capitulate to the Great Kahn will be accepted as a fellow Mongol Vassal. All known tech wills be granted to our fellow Mongol.
3) The Mighty Kahn sees the use of good science as well as religion to placate the masses and finances to fund his conquests. These are to be encouraged. Corporations are to be used as seen fit.
4) The Mighty Kahn will NOT share power: NO representation, NO Universal sufferage, NO beuracracy. (I did inquire about the pacificism trait, but I could not get the Mighty Kahn to understand it. Rather than press the issue, I think no Pacifism either.)
5) Great Generals: Mighty Kahn insists all his generals go into battle. None shall be left as instructor or build military institutes.
6) The Mighty Kahn greatly dislikes wasted production on Wonders, although he does see a few worthy of sacrificing some effort on. The Great Wall, The Statue of Zues, The Pentagon are acceptible wonders. Also, he does see national wonders as a necessary evil.
7) The Mighty Kahn demands tribute. Once alphabet or Currency are discovered, he will demand appropriate tribute to open his borders. If at first refused but later wisdom is learned he may reconsider opening the borders.
8) The Mighty Kahn will NEVER give tribute in peace or war. A request from a pleased or friendly civilization will be considered.
9) The Mighty Kahn NEVER signs defensive pacts. Only the Great Kahn decided when and if to go to war.
10) The Great Kahn generally prefers to raze enemy cities, but he is no fool. A worthy capital, developed city, or holy city warrents consideration.
11) The Great Kahn will tolerate any settled Great People since they have a defined role in the city. They must also be used immediately, no saving the so called Great People for future things such as Golden ages or founding Corps.

The Great Kahn shall post his starting position later today for all to admire. He shall begin his world conquest Monday or so. Understand the world cannot be conquered in a day, this task shall require time.

(So as I understand, Khan the Almighty will accept any ideas and suggestions on how he should complete his Conquest. He expects proper respect titles, please do not offend him as I have to live with him for quite a while. All requests will be considered but of course the Great Kahn has the final say. Computers are a new thing for the Great Kahn so do not expect ALOT of screenshots, but here will be appropriate ones, at each point. Saved games will be kept, as I am new to standard sized maps I am unsure at what point if any the file size gets too big. Also, does marathon speed effect file size).

(Edit: Changed difficulty from nobel to Prince. Altered settled great people in #11, they can be settled now.)

 

[madscientist]

The Great Ghengis Kahn Awakens!!



The Great Kahn is pleased. A good start with plenty of food for his valiant Mongol warriors. Seafood and Yak, wood and hills for building.

(Save attached. I was going to ask someone to check it out for an isolated start but I figured since we were going for conquest, doesn't really matter when we find everyone and looks a good start to defend against barbs. Er, no that the Great Kahn would have any problems with them.

So first question, where to settle and where to send the scout.

Techwise I am thinking Fishing/AH/mining/BW

Build I am thinking warrior/workboat/worker to start.

Any ideas? I'll start the game Monday night after work.)

 

[r_rolo1]

I would revise rule 11 ... A true story:

When Genghis Khan finally conquered Kaifeng, we was going to raze the city, like he did to a numberless horde of other ones that had resisted him.... but one of his counselmans said to him that a lot of cratfsmen had settled in Kaifeng ( running away from him ) and that killing them would be a waste. The Khan saw wisdom in this words and Kaifeng was spared....

Maybe just storing them would be forbidden...

Another 2 things: Vassals and Colonies... Allowed or not? Both happened in Mongol history ( and they ulterly were the cause of the fall of the Mongols: too many khans = no Khan ), but to give flavour to the game, maybe they should not be allowed.

 

[slobberinbear]

Mad: I think you should raise the difficulty at least to Prince. If you are a Monarch/Emperor player, the handicaps you've given yourself are worth about one difficulty level, IMHO.

 

[madscientist]

Mad: I think you should raise the difficulty at least to Prince. If you are a Monarch/Emperor player, the handicaps you've given yourself are worth about one difficulty level, IMHO.

( I initially had Prince but changed at the last minute to nobel considering I am going after a conquest win. Glad you pointed that out as I was wavering back and forth, so I guess that decides it. I'll up it to Prince.)

 

[madscientist]

I would revise rule 11 ... A true story:

When Genghis Khan finally conquered Kaifeng, we was going to raze the city, like he did to a numberless horde of other ones that had resisted him.... but one of his counselmans said to him that a lot of cratfsmen had settled in Kaifeng ( running away from him ) and that killing them would be a waste. The Khan saw wisdom in this words and Kaifeng was spared....


Maybe just storing them would be forbidden...

The Mighty Kahn sees wisdome in this, the settled specialist shall have a defined role. No Great person shall be in waiting to start a rebellion though. (Translation: good idea about settling the GPs, I did think what would I do if I got a Prophet at the end if I couldn't settle him or hold him for a GA. Kahn the Mighty flat out refuses to save them up though).

Another 2 things: Vassals and Colonies... Allowed or not? Both happened in Mongol history ( and they ulterly were the cause of the fall of the Mongols: too many khans = no Khan ), but to give flavour to the game, maybe they should not be allowed.

No Mongol land shall be split off. Worthy opponents make loyal Vassals. (Translation: No colonies. In fact colonies from other AIs will appear in the the Great Kahn's eyes as inferior and likely not vassaled, DO YOU HEAR THIS JAOA IF YOUR OUT THERE. The Great Kahn definitely see value in vassaling a stronge military foe. Question: I think I read somewhere a vassal counts for conquest, meaning if I vassal all AIs I will a Conquest Victory, Correct?)

 

[r_rolo1]

Yes, if you vassalize everyone you win by conquest as well

 

[madscientist]

Yes, if you vassalize everyone you win by conquest as well

Excellent!! The Great Kahn is pleased!

 

[Diamondeye]

... If the Khan allows it, his scribe Diamondeye will add some flavor to the story?

(Translation: If needed, I will be of assistance by adding "RP text" to this here thread. Posting first example in SPOILER tags)

Spoiler :

The Great Khan looked around at his tribesmen... They were the strongest of the Mongol Tribe. Every one of them had proven their worth time and time again, yet they stood against their hardest challenge yet. The Khan saw longer than normal, mortal men, even Mongols. He would forge an epic empire and rule the world as Genghis Khan - in the Mongol language this translates to "The great Khan", or "Khan of all tribes". Due to the lack of the sound "k" in the Mongol language, it was spoken "Chingis-Haan".

...He looked around at the area. Lots of tall trees surrounded the glade, but he could see the ocean in two directions. His scouts farther to the west had confirmed abundancies of tasty clam in the waters around this spot, and large flocks of cows had been seen just north of here. He wondered if this was the right place to settle Karakorum, the heart of the Mongol Empire.
He heard a voice behind him:

"Temüdjin," his brother said. Only his brothers adressed him by his first name. "I think this is the right place to settle. If we head inlands, we will lose the opportunity to fish all these clams. What is your decision?"

Temüdjin looked at his younger brother. He had three brothers, all younger than himself. The fourth and older brother, Bekter, Temüdjin had killed himself; He was the oldest of the brothers now. And the strongest. He had proven that already. "Brother", he hissed, "I want you to call me by my proper title when the tribe is so close. You will adress me Genghis Khan."
For a moment a glimpse of fear shone through the emotional mask of his brother, before the face was steady as stone again. Temüdjin enjoyed his terrifying effect on even those closest to him. He would make a good Khan, no, the best Khan the Mongol tribes had ever had.
"Bring my word to the others... My decision is..."

 

[madscientist]

... If the Khan allows it, his scribe Diamondeye will add some flavor to the story?

(Translation: If needed, I will be of assistance by adding "RP text" to this here thread. Posting first example in SPOILER tags)

Spoiler :

The Great Khan looked around at his tribesmen... They were the strongest of the Mongol Tribe. Every one of them had proven their worth time and time again, yet they stood against their hardest challenge yet. The Khan saw longer than normal, mortal men, even Mongols. He would forge an epic empire and rule the world as Genghis Khan - in the Mongol language this translates to "The great Khan", or "Khan of all tribes". Due to the lack of the sound "k" in the Mongol language, it was spoken "Chingis-Haan".

...He looked around at the area. Lots of tall trees surrounded the glade, but he could see the ocean in two directions. His scouts farther to the west had confirmed abundancies of tasty clam in the waters around this spot, and large flocks of cows had been seen just north of here. He wondered if this was the right place to settle Karakorum, the heart of the Mongol Empire.
He heard a voice behind him:

"Temüdjin," his brother said. Only his brothers adressed him by his first name. "I think this is the right place to settle. If we head inlands, we will lose the opportunity to fish all these clams. What is your decision?"

Temüdjin looked at his younger brother. He had three brothers, all younger than himself. The fourth and older brother, Bekter, Temüdjin had killed himself; He was the oldest of the brothers now. And the strongest. He had proven that already. "Brother", he hissed, "I want you to call me by my proper title when the tribe is so close. You will adress me Genghis Khan."
For a moment a glimpse of fear shone through the emotional mask of his brother, before the face was steady as stone again. Temüdjin enjoyed his terrifying effect on even those closest to him. He would make a good Khan, no, the best Khan the Mongol tribes had ever had.
"Bring my word to the others... My decision is..."

Yes, The great Kahn is pleaded with his new Scribe.

(Please go ahead. My concern for doing teh RPC was my lack of naration, by all means I welcome it).

 

[Diamondeye]

Thanks for the honor. I will be posting the next episode once youve decided what to settle and what to tech.

 

[Killroyan]

Interesting RPG. Will be lurking here. Funny story from me when I played Genghis on great plains with conquest in mind (vassal everybody). I got everybody vassaled around 1500 and thought it would be the fastest conquest ever. Then I checked the victory screen and nothing was highlighted. Then I found out I made a mistake with removing every victory condition even conquest

Now back to the game, lets hope you find horses. Stables and his UU rock.

 

[Deepflow]

Yes, if you vassalize everyone you win by conquest as well

Er, i played a game where i vassalised everyone and i won by domination :/

 

[sirhanselot]

Wow, lot's of food in the BFC. Is the settler standing on a plains hill?

I would settle in place since moving would mean giving up a seefood resource. But I almost always settle in place and play on prince myself so don't place to mutch value on my advice....

BTW I love the Ghengis Kahn theme!!

 

[r_rolo1]

Er, i played a game where i vassalised everyone and i won by domination :/

Most likely your last vassal give you enough land points to pass the Dom win level....

Abot the start: your starting position has more food that it can handle now. But looks that settling in place is the best move (P.S Khan hordes feeded with clams )

 

[LiberiGlacialis]

Heh. Bear ends his, I leave for a weekend, and three more appear!

But I like how this one goes. The Great Kahn....*chuckles*

Plenty of food. Settle in place, and you got good defenses as well. With a military bend on your teching, Mine/BW/Fishing/AH sounds almost as good as the way you have it. (And I forget, but does the Hordes start with Hunting?)

 

[sirhanselot]

With a military bend on your teching, Mine/BW/Fishing/AH sounds almost as good as the way you have it.

I would go Fishing/Mining/BW/AH

1. You can build an early workboat (before your first worker) so your capital has enough time to grow. AH can wait since you don't really need to work the cow right away.

2. After that BW ASAP for whipping/slavery and copperville. This way you leave the 'early rush' option open.

 

[madscientist]

The Great Kahn will accept a domination win if all opponents are Vassaled. The Great Kahn is also pleased with the advice from his fellow Mongol warriors.

(Thanks for all the advice. Some tidbitd before I start this thing tonight

1) As long as there is no free AI left, we will take a domination victory.
2) Not mentioned earlier but I think appropriate, pillaging is essential. This should be encouraged by the Mongol horde, particularly if war follows a refused tribute. War following tribute from and AI will result in perhaps less pillaging.
3) I have started ALOT of BTS GHengis Kahn games the past week, and always there is copper and horses close by. Frequently in the capital BFC although I don't see any spots open in the BFC.
4) Mighty Kahn starts with hunting and the wheel, so we should be able to hook up war resources early.
5) Mighty Kahn's limitations, er I mean Challenge, is lack of any commerce producing traits, so I think the capital should be a mega science city from the start. 3 hills minimum, 3 seafood, yak (cow), and two nice riverside grassland tiles for cottages. I think this needs to be pursued very agressively early with city #2 being the military production powerhouse.
6) Fishing first I think is a given and pretty much the consensous. I think AH next simply to get the cows hooked up and get some pretty early production. Mining and BW next and hopefully I can be popping a settler as soon as BW is teched. Might as well take advantage of the imperialistic trait early. Remember this is marathon so it will take maybe 100 turns to tech fishing/AH/mining/BW.
7) I do not recall if the hill with the settler is a plains or grassland hill. The blue circle is a tribal village.
8) Potential early rush: This is Prince and if I recall, the AI does not start with archers. It is realistic to take out another close by AI with chariots before they get or build archers. At least we can pillage the metal/horses before they can hook them up.
9) In all my starts this week I found Ghengis starts with accessable stone quite a bit. If this is the case we may agreesively beeline for the Great Wall. Great Spies will come in handy.
10) Unless we pop Mysticism or Masonry right away, I think we will forget founding any religion unless we can get COL first or bulb Phil.

I will very likely tech the first 4 then post the saved game.

Any other suggestions please get them in this afternoon.)

 

[sirhanselot]

Any other suggestions please get them in this afternoon.

Have fun!!! Can't wait for the first round....

 

[madscientist]

The Great Kahn forms the first Mongol settlement on the grassland hill, showing a very rich supply of resources. WE are pleased, commerce for our campaigns!



We meet our first rival. The Mighty Kahn raises his eyebrows at his appearance, that of a lion! This one may be difficult to take on.



Soon after the Great Kahn meets another one. He snarls and is dipleased with this one's apparent arrogance. Nothing good shall come from that one!



The Mighty Kahn continues spearheading the Mongol research and to his great dissappointment neither horse nor copper is readily avaiable. Mighty Kahn grabs his nearest general's collar screaming "FIND ME SOME IRON, FAST!!!". As he releases the general, his eyes glance at the southeastern penninsula, perhaps. He then looks north across the northern sea, and perhaps that will do. The great Kahn slaps his general on the back, "We shall get through this, glorious conquest of the world"



(Well there we have it. GOLD in the BFC, definitely a big early science city. I altered my original tech path a bit after finding this.

Teched: fishing (popped last 5 turns)/mining/BW/AH
Build: warrior (partial)/workboat/workboat/worker/warrior finish/warrior

Next a settler.

Where do we go from here. The Great Kahn request advice from all his generals.

1) Two troublesome AIs. Joao is a pain and will expand to the west like mad. Gilgamesh is protective/creative which will crowd us real fast.

2) First settler(s)
A) 2 on Gilgamesh' border to force him to expand east
B) Claim the stone/GOLD/WHeat and make a fast run at the Great Wall (square 1 east of wheat)
C) Northern penninsula for wheat/last clam.
That's 5 cities without any wars.

3) What do we tech next
A) iron working and hope for iron real close by
B) Masonry and mysticism for the great wall (we need a monument to culture pop Stone city to the BFC)
C) Sailing to explore the northern tundra island and see if there is copper or horse there.
D) archery, secure an fast military unit and run a whole lot of them at Gilgamesh.

4) Long range: Both Gilgamesh and Jaoa have to go. Gilgamesh in a fast swoop. Joao I am looking at a series of hit and runs, although difficult with horses. We have easy access to stone and gold, and can get alot of early commerce; meaning we have a good shot at both the great Wall and the Statue of Zues.

Looks daunting at first, but if the Great Kahn is confident so am I.

What say you all?

PS: As you can see I definitely do not post as many screenshots as others, hope this is OK and gets the point across)