Romanian Civ (BtS 3.19)

[kochman]

I added Iancu de Hunedoara aka John Hunyadi... this will surely irritate some Hungarians, but his dad was Romanian and he ruled Transylvania for a period. I will admit his bigger role was as Governor-Regent of Hungary, and fathering Hungarian (and part Romanian) hero king Matthia Corvin... but I wanted to add him since such a great LH was made for him...

"The White Knight"

 

[AbsintheRed]

khmmmmmmmm
huhh or wtf? I don't know what to say
Hunyadi János ruled Transylvania, part of Hungary
He had romanian origins too, I agree on that
But this is exactly the same thing as giving Catherine the Great to France instead of Russia
John Hunyadi saw himself as a hungarian, and was a very important figure in hungarian history
And no offence, but he has nothing to do with romanian history besides his origin

 

[cool3a2]

I suppose we can't convince him to not use Hunyadi, AbsintheRed. Still, you should give nitram credits as the leaderhead is his work.

BTW: What did I do that I occur on your credits list?

 

[kochman]

khmmmmmmmm
huhh or wtf? I don't know what to say
Hunyadi János ruled Transylvania, part of Hungary
He had romanian origins too, I agree on that
But this is exactly the same thing as giving Catherine the Great to France instead of Russia
John Hunyadi saw himself as a hungarian, and was a very important figure in hungarian history
And no offence, but he has nothing to do with romanian history besides his origin

Yes, I know that at that time, Transylvania was a part of Hungary. As I said, disclaimed, he doesn't really fit... No need to get upset.
In the game text, he is credited as being Hungarian as well as Romanian. Interesting that a (half) Romanian became the Hungarian leader, those were interesting times.
But, I wanted to throw him in there... to give more options for my Romanian civ. Not quite as crazy as putting Catherine in charge of France, because Transylvania was also Romanian, and is today. But, still, not exactly fitting. For those who object, you can easily get him out of the Romanian civ by editing the "Romania_CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml" (near the bottom of the file) as follows:

<Leader>
					<LeaderName>LEADER_IANCU</LeaderName>
					<bLeaderAvailability>0</bLeaderAvailability>
				</Leader>

@cool3a2 - Yes, I neglected to give credit, have added nitram15 to the credits. Regarding what you did, I have a running list of credits, so if you ever helped me, you are on it. The later the civ mod from me, the more names, because as I get help, I add names.

@nitram15, another awesome leaderhead! Any chance you would be willing to do a leaderhead for me? Not Romanian or Hungarian related... Francesco Sforza of Milan???

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yes, I know that at that time, Transylvania was a part of Hungary. As I said, disclaimed, he doesn't really fit... No need to get upset.
In the game text, he is credited as being Hungarian as well as Romanian. Interesting that a (half) Romanian became the Hungarian leader, those were interesting times.
But, I wanted to throw him in there... to give more options for my Romanian civ. Not quite as crazy as putting Catherine in charge of France, because Transylvania was also Romanian, and is today. But, still, not exactly fitting.

Oh, I did not get upset at all. I think you are a good guy, just don't really get all of the tension here. Altough IIRC your wife is romanian (?), so you probably know at least one side of it

Transylvania and the whole totally unjust and unreal trianon is still a very hurtful thing to all of the hungarians. Still. The way it came out was a political decision, based mostly on french interests, and just partly on the population of these areas.
Furthermore, recently we have do not that many things to be proud of (thinking mostly of the recent hungarian politics), except our history
I was always very proud of hungarian history, and hate that it don't get the deserved respect nowadays (not even in a historical game like Civ), just because Hungary is not that significant today. No offence to anyone, but Hungary was way more imporant for a thousand years than any of it's neighbors, was one of Europe's most powerful and important kingdoms till 1500

Back to the actual question: We both know Hunyadi János was hungarian, based on his own opinion. I don't want to deny the fact that he had romanian blood too, but again, not the origin of a person matters the most. He was a hungarian hero more than anything else...

My main concern is that if someone who doesn't know european history look at your civ he/she won't know any of these things.
So I would really like to ask you not to include Hunyadi in your Romanian civ

 

[AbsintheRed]

Actually, I have an idea
Cool3a2 wanted to make a separate Transylvania civ, but said a couple of weeks ago that he probably won't do it.
I think if you ask him, he won't mind if you make it, and of course Hunyadi will be a perfect leader for the civ
It could be some kind of a mix of hungarian and romanian influence, with both hungarian and romanian leaders
I won't mind that if you make it historically accurate

 

[kochman]

Oh, I did not get upset at all. I think you are a good guy, just don't really get all of the tension here. Altough IIRC your wife is romanian (?), so you probably know at least one side of it

Transylvania and the whole totally unjust and unreal trianon is still a very hurtful thing to all of the hungarians. Still. The way it came out was a political decision, based mostly on french interests, and just partly on the population of these areas.
Furthermore, recently we have do not that many things to be proud of (thinking mostly of the recent hungarian politics), except our history
I was always very proud of hungarian history, and hate that it don't get the deserved respect nowadays (not even in a historical game like Civ), just because Hungary is not that significant today. No offence to anyone, but Hungary was way more imporant for a thousand years than any of it's neighbors, was one of Europe's most powerful and important kingdoms till 1500

Back to the actual question: We both know Hunyadi János was hungarian, based on his own opinion. I don't want to deny the fact that he had romanian blood too, but again, not the origin of a person matters the most. He was a hungarian hero more than anything else...

My main concern is that if someone who doesn't know european history look at your civ he/she won't know any of these things.
So I would really like to ask you not to include Hunyadi in your Romanian civ

As we say in America, bottom line up front... Not changing it.

My wife is from Romania, but has much Hungarian blood. Her family name is Savu, romanized from Sabbho or something like that, which is Hungarian.

I am sorry the loss of Transylvania bothers you. It is a land that has changed owners many times. The people of my heritage have lost a lot of land over history (in fact, my people come from Prussia, now parts of Russia and Poland), and it bothers me... but it's 2010, time to move on.

I am not really worried if people see my civ and have a poor understanding of history because of it. 1) There is civipedia that clearly talks about his history. 2) If someone learns their history from civ mods, you have issues that go well beyond what I can be blamed for!

While he is a hero to Hungary, he is also a hero to the Romanians. When I went to Hunedoara and to his castle, it was a big deal for them (and a remarkable castle). 1/2 of his blood was Romanian from his father, and in a paternistic society such as most of Europe operates under, this is pretty important. Good chance his birthname was not Janos, but Iancu. Not 100% sure of this, but...
We both know he was hungarian/romanian, end of story.

I printed instructions for how people can drop him from being playable if they just can't accept it.

I would be happy to make Transylvania, but not at the moment. I am trying to get all the custom leaderheads back into my modpack for the previously existing civs and am only about 50% complete.

 

[kochman]

500 DLs for the Romanians!

 

[cool3a2]

I am sorry the loss of Transylvania bothers you. It is a land that has changed owners many times. The people of my heritage have lost a lot of land over history (in fact, my people come from Prussia, now parts of Russia and Poland), and it bothers me... but it's 2010, time to move on.

Missed your last posts somehow. I don't want to start another political debate, so I'll keep it short. There is a difference between your example regarding former german territory and the situation Hungary is in. That's why we don't move on. Understand it or not, but we don't. You'll have to learn to accept that we don't. Of course, Hunyadi is a different question.

To say some words about the Transylvania civ, if you want you can make it. I have no plans towards that direction, because of moral doubts. Hunyadi would be a good choise. Rákóczi would be, too. And of course Dracula. For all the three leaders, there are already LHs out there. Also, the settler we already had a debate about, would fit here. Ah... if I already mention it: I could try to search on my harddrive for the picture showing romanian clothing I once searched for Zerver when he wanted to create a couple of unique settler art (wich he never did). You might use it for a request.

 

[AbsintheRed]

No, I will make Transylvania soon. Civ already WIP

 

[kochman]

Cool absinthe... I look forward to it.

This may surprise you guys, but I don't really think Vlad would be a good LH for Transylvania... he was born there (they think), but his power base was more the Wallachia region, and he often fought directly against Transylvanian cities/forces (such as Brasov)... unless I am missing something.

 

[cool3a2]

Well, that really surprises me. I myself don't have a problem if he misses, but neither if he's in. So it's Absinthes choice.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah you are right, I was planning to add Vlad to represent the romanians
Right now 2 hungarian leaders, Hunyadi Janos and Szapolyai will be definitely in, and I'm still thinking of Rakoczi and Vlad
Do we have any other LHs from or strongly connected to Transylvania?


EDIT: Didn't answer this part:
Historically Vlad was much more connected to Wallachia of course, but I'm sure most people would like to see him in a Transylvanian civ (if they can choose any civ).
That's why I'm thinking to add him, even if it's not totally accurate

 

[kochman]

Mihai the Brave did unite the three regions for the first time in history, so he was connected to Transylvania in that way...
Vlad is fine though, really. I mean, we have some leaders in the game that aren't even necessarily real to begin with, so why not? If people object, the fix to delete a leaderhead's availability in their personal download is easy enough! "1" to "0".

If I can help in any way, let me know. One things I was thinking, this is one where the city names could really be effected by the downloader's language! I could also potentially get my wife to do a Romanian translation of any game text... potentially. She may just tell me I am a dork and not do it.

 

[cool3a2]

You might think about using my JTranslator program for translating work... See utility section.

 

[BlackoutLP]

I propose to add this music to the mod: http://www.sendspace.com/file/oitdx4
Also recommend to fix ArtDefines_Civilization: change bWhiteFlag to 1

 

[kochman]

I propose to add this music to the mod: http://www.sendspace.com/file/oitdx4
Also recommend to fix ArtDefines_Civilization: change bWhiteFlag to 1

I will do that.
Why do you suggest changing the bWhiteFlag?
Is there an issue?

Also, in the pack you uploaded, it has code for the leaderheads. Is that just to get the music working? Or do I need to change other code too?
I haven't coded music changes before.

 

[BlackoutLP]

I added the code for the music, you just need to replace the existing files and add new lines to Audio2DScripts and AudioDefines. I propose to change the bWhiteFlag because when set to 0, the Romanian flag is painted in playercolor, it's not very nice.

 

[kochman]

I added the code for the music, you just need to replace the existing files and add new lines to Audio2DScripts and AudioDefines. I propose to change the bWhiteFlag because when set to 0, the Romanian flag is painted in playercolor, it's not very nice.

Where do I add the Audio2DScripts and AudioDefines?

 

[BlackoutLP]

These files are in Beyond the Sword\Assets\XML\Audio. Copy the files to the folder with the mod, and add lines to them.