Romantic notions

[Brighteye]

I've been wondering for a while from where these come.
The women I meet mostly are interested in monogamous relationships: they want not only to feel special; to enjoy their time with me (or boyfriend, if they're just platonic friends of mine), but to have the relationship be something of a one-off.
Why is it necessary to have something so 'special' before having sex? Why must someone else make a woman feel special? What happened to self-evaluation?

Is this disgust at polyamory and promiscuity inbuilt or cultural? It's certainly highly prevalent in our culture, but I can't help but think that if there wasn't a tendency towards it more women would rebel.
If you think it's cultural, at what point in education (and how) are people indoctrinated?

I've known women who seem very sensible and independent become very lovey and soppy after/about sex. Why is sex such a sacred notion for people (even people who don't believe any religious doctrine)? What is it that makes people treat it so differently from, for example, a massage?

Why is sex special, and why does it require some reinforcement of 'specialness'? Why do so many people regard it as cheating if you see someone else after having sex (not immediately! Within a few days, let's say)?

Example of the cultural bias towards monogamy:

Spoiler :

Do you believe that young people are capable of maintaining long-term relationships and capable of moral reasoning?

Everyone who has looked at the issue has found that teens can experience the love that adults experience. The only difference is that they change partners more, because they are warehoused together, told it's puppy love and not real, and are unable to marry without permission. The assumption is they are not capable. But many distinguished couples today—Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter, George and Barbara Bush—married young and have very successful long-term relationships.

According to census data, the divorce rate of males marrying in their teens is lower than that of males marrying in their 20s. Overall the divorce rate of people marrying in their teens is a little higher. Does that mean we should prohibit them from marrying? That's absurd. We should aim to reverse that, telling young people the truth: that they are capable of creating long-term stable relationships. They might fail—but adults do every day, too.

The "friends with benefits" phenomenon is a by-product of isolating adolescents, warehousing them together, and delivering messages that they are incapable of long-term relationships. Obviously they have strong sexual urges and act on them in ways that are irresponsible. We can change that by letting them know they are capable of having more than a hookup.

Studies show that we reach the highest levels of moral reasoning while we're still in our teens. Those capabilities parallel higher-order cognitive reasoning abilities, which peak fairly early. Across the board, teens are far more capable than we think they are.

 

[Rambuchan]

Sex produces children. Children are borne by women. Men are not necessary in this later process. Some men do the offski when children appear. Hence - women want men to commit to raising the child, their being made to feel special is something of a confirmation that the man will stick around and bear this burden.

It's actually quite rational and concerns itself with survival of her offspring. For any further questions: please tune into natural history programming and watch animals doing it too.

 

[Brighteye]

Yes, I've heard the evolutionary story. You think it's all innate?
What about men who feel the same way?

Do you think that we can overcome our genetic programming? Do you think that we should? What reasons are there nowadays (with condoms, birth control pills and reliable abortions) for romance?

 

[puglover]

Hey, I believe in monogamy on a religious basis, don't ask me.

 

[RedRalph]

Yes, I've heard the evolutionary story. You think it's all innate?
What about men who feel the same way?

Do you think that we can overcome our genetic programming? Do you think that we should? What reasons are there nowadays (with condoms, birth control pills and reliable abortions) for romance?

this is true, they exist. Its an odd one alright. but its not universal. Plenty of girls and guys ride around every night, consider it just a bit of fun.

 

[JerichoHill]

Brighteye,

Read some Gary Becker, mainly his treatise on human capital, and you'd be able to see why women are going to be interested in long-term pairings, at least moreso than men.

However, with women now working and earning incomes (and therefore not needing a provider), their sexual relationships have become more promiscious (that, and the advent of condoms and bc pills and the like.

It's this subject that I've written a few papers on (mainly extending Gary Becker's model into the current day, and utilizing databases he didn't have.

 

[nc-1701]

Well, I must say that even as a guy I share this viewpoint. I'm a virgin, and I share all these views your OP atributed to women. I think the main reason for this is that I have never actually done it myself. So it's very foreign I guess... I imagine once I;ve done it a few times my view of it will change to look at it as kind of like masturbating, but way more fun.
For now though, I place irrational tags on it, and give it all kinds of extra meanings. I think it's partially a cultural thing, partially innate evolution, and partially just a nervousness thing... I mean to have sex you have to be very close to someone physically. I dn't know about you, but I typically try to keep good physical distance between me, and anyone I don't really trust...

I think that's most of it.

 

[warpus]

Why is it necessary to have something so 'special' before having sex? Why must someone else make a woman feel special? What happened to self-evaluation?

That's just how women are..

Accept it.

Questioning it will just give you headaches.

 

[Brighteye]

I question most things. It's the English version of rebellion: not quite so extreme, but nicely calm and moderate.

 

[Brighteye]

Brighteye,

Read some Gary Becker, mainly his treatise on human capital, and you'd be able to see why women are going to be interested in long-term pairings, at least moreso than men.

However, with women now working and earning incomes (and therefore not needing a provider), their sexual relationships have become more promiscious (that, and the advent of condoms and bc pills and the like.

It's this subject that I've written a few papers on (mainly extending Gary Becker's model into the current day, and utilizing databases he didn't have.

So this cultural phenomenon is solely a result of economic pressures? I take it that these pressures are working subconsciously then. Do you think that people would change the way they act if the reasons behind their actions were explained and they discovered that their feelings were only a result of economics?

 

[warpus]

The phenomenon can also be explained via sexual economics.

 

[Chazumi]

What reasons are there nowadays (with condoms, birth control pills and reliable abortions) for romance?

To make sure they aren't lying about AIDS, because this one time I er... a friend of mine uh...

 

[JerichoHill]

So this cultural phenomenon is solely a result of economic pressures? I take it that these pressures are working subconsciously then. Do you think that people would change the way they act if the reasons behind their actions were explained and they discovered that their feelings were only a result of economics?

I think you need to read becker's works first. I dont think people would change the way the act based on your questions, because how they act isn't based on feelings. When economists analyze human behavior, we *assume* rationality, and look for the cause. We assume their behavior is utility maximizing. Therefore, why would we want them to change?


If you believe love is in fact, irrational, then understanding love is beyond the realm of science.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think it's because how intense sex is. I can think of few experiences that are a multi-modal in sensory experience. And not just the "five basic senses" too, but washes of hormones are involved as well as sensory input from lots of internal organs.

It's all tied to pleasure, of course. You already know the evolutionary reasons why the pleasure is tied in.

Usually when an experience is tied to multiple senses, we become more and more capable of being poetic about it. There are more metaphors to draw upon and create.

I think higher-level thinking likes creating metaphors and expanding upon them, reviewing them and revising them. (evolutionarily, the ability to create metaphors has been very valuable). So we've got a whole body experience tied in with a great deal of higher-level cognition: all tied into pleasure centers.

 

[Rhymes]

I have to disagree with the OP. I had sex with many women that didn't mind about not having a romantic futur together. On the other hand I have never met a single girl that wanted to wait before having sex to see if it was serious enough or whatever.

That's just how women are..

Accept it.

Questioning it will just give you headaches.

Where do yuo guys live? This is really not the impression I have of women ??

 

[sourboy]

Why must someone else make a woman feel special? What happened to self-evaluation?

Instincts. The Male was the provider (which meant physical labor/protection originally), while the female was the care-giver (which means raising children -- and that's emotional). People often want what they give, as it's what they know best.

 

[warpus]

Where do yuo guys live? This is really not the impression I have of women ??

I don't have an impression of women - I have stopped trying to understand them many years ago.

I was trying the best advice I could - stop trying to understand - and just wing it

 

[sourboy]

I don't have an impression of women - I have stopped trying to understand them many years ago.

I was trying the best advice I could - stop trying to understand - and just wing it

Money and compliments.

That's it. Money allows them to buy items that make them feel good, picking up where the lack of compliments falls short.

Trust me.

 

[JerichoHill]

sourboy,

that's incredibly shallow.

Mebbah some of the fellers(and ladies) who managed to get hitched would give out the best advice.

 

[downtown]

Jesus these threads are depressing.