Rome: Hardest UHV??

Gritzeldrei

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It is really odd to see that there is no UHV guide for Rome in 1.16. It's on of the most popular and important civilization in our history yet it seems like that it is nothing in DOC.

Does anyone have a guide in completing the Roman UHV?
 
Rome does not require a strategic guide.
You must go to build your empire and hope for china or so do not research any late techs before you.
There is no strategy, just fun.
 
Rome has the hardest UHV's in RFC and RFC DoC.
I played over 20 games with Rome and won at the last moment in Dawn of Civilization.
The way I won is not really strategic but I'm just going to say how I did it, maybe it helps.
I got VERY VERY VERY lucky because Greece had a city where Pompeii should be and when it revolted and joined my empire the Greeks declared war on me and I received 4 more legions. That gave me the possibility to just build barracks, forums etc... in all my cities.
While my cities where building I took some cities from the Celts in France and defended my borders heroically!
I lost 2 Legions until 350 - 400 BC. Then I started building Ballista's so I could make some collateral damage to the elephants in Carthage.
I debarked 4 Legions and 2 Ballistas with another Ballista waiting in Pompeii. I took all of North Africa by 300 BC.
Then I don't remember exactly what happened but I do know that Carthage was extremely productive and built a lot of barrakcs, forums, colosseums etc...
The Greeks had some huge armies around the Middle East but my ballistas made their job as collateral damage.
I took Egypt but only AND ONLY 2 cities like the UHV required. I didn't declare war on Egypt. I took the cities from the Greeks and the Egyptians where very friendly with me.
I gave away the 3rd city I got from the Greeks in Egypt because I was losing too much money per turn and research.
I forgot to mention that you should try to go for currency first and then the Engineering and then the other techs.
If I remember correctly Greece was the last I conquered and Asia Minor was already very weak so it was easy.
The Byzantines spawned and I gave them all my cities in Asia Minor, Greece, and Egypt. I still needed ONE more Colosseum!!!!
In 1 turn I would lose if I didn't finish the Colosseum in Carthage which would take 2 more turns! I was very frustrated and I didn't have slvary or citizenship running.
Luckily a Great Engineer spawned in Carthage because I had like 3 wonders in Carthage and one of them gave me Great Engineer points.
I used the great Engineer to finish the Colosseum and then I won!
Game Settings:
-Regent difficulty
-Normal speed

So if you read this you learned that luck had a LOT to do with me winning.
 
Do you guys reckon it's a good idea to take out Greece first to prevent their conqueror events? Or do you think they just make conquering the UHV areas easier as they might collapse civs like Egypt etc.? Also, at what point do you think one should settle Hispania and with which cities?
 
When i play with Romans, i first eliminate Carthaginians, then get those gaul cities in France, and then move to the east to conquest the rest of the world. Spain is the last thing i do, ulness Phoenicians succeded in settling in Spain, in that case i take that city before going to the east.
If Greece gets its conqueror events, it will collapse later, making easier my conquest, so let it expand.

The harder goal of roman UHV is that one related to techs, which is totally luck-dependent, so don't mind it.
Concentrate in building your empire, and one game every ten, you'll win a UHV.
 
Do you guys reckon it's a good idea to take out Greece first to prevent their conqueror events? Or do you think they just make conquering the UHV areas easier as they might collapse civs like Egypt etc.? Also, at what point do you think one should settle Hispania and with which cities?
I usually let Greece get their conquerors, that will just make it easier for you. The only problem is that they usually have a pretty big stack in Egypt so build a lot of Ballistas to make collateral damage.
 
1.16, Monarch/Marathon
Found Rome, Pompei and Aemona Julia (in the Balkans, BUT in your own core and with access to copper - if another Greek city has covered the copper tile yet, attack it at start and raze it, so they'll come easily to you begging for peace, same thing if there's Messana). Wait two turns to accept Mailand from Gauls (do not invade their territory before).
From now, just build up your empire until the discovery of Law, which will allow you to switch to Citizenship. Rome will be your first-buidling city, let other cities produce workers first; Roman UP is wonderful, you'll have a 30% discount on every building previously created in Rome. I decided to build Granary, Olympian Temple, Barracks, then Library. After the discovery of Law, search/obtain by exchange with other civs (preferably the ones you're gonna destroy later) Currency (build Forums, switch to Merchant Trade, so your finances will be safe) and Engineering (build Arena, then Flavian Amphitheatre in Rome - other wonders are unnecessary, let other civs build them up, so you'll get them later). Now you can go for Generalship and switch to Conquest.
Now you are ready to build up your army, probably after 100 AD, so past the deadline for 1st UHV

Before, you don't have to attack anyone but Gauls. I suggest to take over Lugdunum and Burdigala right after their spawn. They will give you two barracks needed to reach 1st UHV and maybe acqueduct or arena in place of poorly productive Pompei thanks to their close forests ready to be chopped. Gauls units are weaker than Barbarians, so with some tactical tips you'll be able to overcome them with few Legions. About that, my suggestions are:
- Build (just Roman) roads everywhere. You'll be able to move fast from a tile to another.
- Promote Legions to Woodsman and Shock. With a couple of Legions with these promotions in the right forest tile, you can defeat every kind of four-barbarian stack.
- Chop the forest in the first ring around (almost) every city. They'll just provide a safe spot for the enemy, not for your units.
- Use one Archer per city.
- Do not use any units but Legion outside the town.
- Send a galley with an archer in Iberia, then Britannia, Ireland, Scandinavia and Jutland to the huts; they could give us some money, but disband any other units received.

As I said, you don't have to produce any military unit until 100 AD. You can create some units only during the interval between the production of biuldings needed to reach 1st UHV: they'll be enough to face barbarians. From 100 AD, you'll have to invade your neighbours; before, you can keep them pleased with open borders (do not open to Persian or any other eastern civs with some non-pagan religion, because you don't want their gods make useless your temples or keep you away from wonderful Flavian Amphitheatre).
I built 4 ballistas, 6 or more legions, 6 galleys and 6 war galleys (Mare Nostrum is the way). I went to Carhago (an additional Spearman could be useful against their Elephants and, later, for barbarian camels raids), I razed the city in Lybia and keep, if present, the city in Algeria. If you are lucky, you'll find a city of them in Iberia too, usually weakly defended: take it with some units from Gaul.
Then continue to produce some additional ballistas from the magic triangle Rome-Mailand-Aemona Julia and go right to Athens. Taking their capitol will give you a powerhouse, probably full of wonders too. If there is Sparta, keep it only if it provide you some wonder; on the contrary, raze it. Take another two cities between Greece and Anatholia (I usually found Byzantion and Ankyra), then stop. You don't need to go further to the East, but, with some of your units left in Northern Africa and some additional ones produced by handsome Carthago, go to Egypt. If Alexander was The Great, you'll find a bunch of Greek cities or, if you've taken Athens already, maybe a bunch of weak indie cities; on the contrary, you'll have to face Cleopatra, your last enemy. The time is running out, so go ahead to Diospolis Magna and their Pyramids, then get another little town around there.
In the meantime, you'll have to produce only 3-4 settlers. This will be a task for Burdigala, Lugdunum and, if necessary, Pompei, after 100 AD. When you'll take control over the Mediterranean Sea, send an escorted galley to Burdigala (it will take some time) in order to transport a settler to Britannia; the other ones will settle Lutetia Parisorum and 1-2 cities in Spain just in time with the deadline of 320 AD, we don't want to keep them for a long time.
Congratulations: a very useful 2 out of 3 UHVs golden age will save you from the abyss of a terrible stability crisis and push you to the 3rd UHV.

After Law and Generalship, you just have to aim to every single tech required. You could set some GP production from the start in order to exploit some tech; I was given a great artist (100% of chance) and a great engineer (mixed chance), so I used them to discover 4 techs. Of course, you'll have to be lucky; China or India could preempt you, sometimes Persia too, so I suggest to not exchange any tech with them if you see, in the diplomatic window, that they are too much ahead.
I succeded in 336, then my empire was split in two.
 
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1.16, Monarch/Marathon
Found Rome, Pompei and Aemona Julia (in the Balkans, BUT in your own core and with access to copper - if another Greek city has covered the copper tile yet, attack it at start and raze it, so they'll come easily to you begging for peace, same thing if there's Messana)...

I don't know... your strategy seems too optimistic... Aemona Julia on plans, delay conquest of Carthago, delay early training of legions...

I prefere to build Aemona Julia one tile north: not yet in Balkans, still in core but when fortifed, it blocks any barbarian invasion from the east.
Barbarian axes come since first turns, from the east and from the west, and i like to have a stack of 4 legions in the east and in the west of Italy.
Also i like to get Carthago ASAP, and use it to build some of the UHV1 buildings.

Anyway i never need ballistas: legions are strong enough, and ballistas are longer to train and longer to heal after a combat, and often one has no time to bombard.
 
I don't know... your strategy seems too optimistic... Aemona Julia on plans, delay conquest of Carthago, delay early training of legions...

I prefere to build Aemona Julia one tile north: not yet in Balkans, still in core but when fortifed, it blocks any barbarian invasion from the east.
Barbarian axes come since first turns, from the east and from the west, and i like to have a stack of 4 legions in the east and in the west of Italy.
Also i like to get Carthago ASAP, and use it to build some of the UHV1 buildings.

Anyway i never need ballistas: legions are strong enough, and ballistas are longer to train and longer to heal after a combat, and often one has no time to bombard.
I prefer Aemona Julia in that spot because:
- you can have access to copper immediately;
- I never let barbarians attack Aemona Julia, so I don't need to build it on a hill (it occurred maybe two times, but just by horse archers, that are not a real threat in city attack);
- in the first ring around the city you have just 1-2 hills and plains with forests: as I said, chop them, fortify a legion on the hill, then the others in the forest in the second ring, but let the plains in the 1st ring uncovered by forest, so you can attack every barbarian unit entering your first ring without any defence bonus from terrain;
- I usually bulid a Roman road that connects Aemona Julia and Lugdunum beyond the Alps; it grants you to move fast your legions between east and west.

After the conquest of Gaul:
- build a fort in the hill+forest in the Basque tile;
- chop every forest around Lugdunum and attack every barbarian coming from Iberia;
- rivers will provide some great defensive bonus in Gaul and, when you'll have to face barbarians, you'll already have well experienced troops (none of my legions had city-attack promotion until 2th century).

Of course, legions should be properly upgraded. I remember that I used stacks of 2 units, one defensive (forest/hill promoted) + one offensive (shock promoted) and move them fast to surround barbarians. Ballistas are the 2nd UU for a purpose; I would have never had chance to make my conquest in Africa, Egypt, Greece and Anatolia in 150 years without them (bombard city promoted), because I would have waited for my legions to heal for too long.
Keeping Hannibal alive will provide you a good partner for tech exchange.

P.S. I always play Marathon games.
 
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I come back here after more than a year, testing another Roman game updated to the most recent Git version. I confirm that Rome (Monarch/Marathon) is quite easy. Thanks to advanced start, now I can have two precious libraries immediately in Rome and Milan, I think it boosted my research rate since the beginning.
Some tips:
- have 4 + 4 legions, one stack in Gallia, another one in the Balkans: if adequately connected by great Roman roads, promoted and fortified in isolated woods tiles, they'll be enough to face barbarians till the end of the game;
- giving Pompei a hill/grass extra tile from Rome is a good solution to speed up its production, so it could help to achieve UHV1;
- do not attack other civs before 100 AD: Macedonian Empire often collapse later after weakened others;
- do not trade techs, except if a civ is about to collapse or is very backwards;
- check often what other civs can research: it will help you to choice the right tech requested for UHV3;
- do not open borders / close your borders to a civ having a state religion: they'll expand to your cities, affecting your stability / stopping you from building Flavian Amphitheatre (the only wonder you must build);
- found two cities in Iberia + one in Britannia only one turn before the deadline (320 AD).
 

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After several attempts, I managed to achieve the 3 UHVs as Rome in Paragon/Epic mode with a super cheesy strategy.

The idea here is to start with older civilizations and build your way to glory, otherwise it will be impossible to win. Even so, expect a very hard game as the AI will research in a crazy speed at this difficulty.

First off, start as Babylon. Build a militia and together with your existing one, go to the Harappans.

Steal their worker and lure one of their militia and kill him (reload if you don't). Now, you will be able to take the city with your 2 militia against the sole defender.
By doing that, you will get a new city and be able to train 2 archers. Also, you will prevent this city from going to India when they spawn, making them less strong. Do that and send your army to China (2 archers and 1 militia).
Raid their improved tiles and seize any opportunity to take down their cities (expansion might be undefended and sometimes there will be just one archer defending the capital). If not, just raiding their tiles and stationing your troops there will be enough to deal substantial damage and delay their researches. Keep in mind that China is the main competitor to the tech race.

When the Greeks spawn, switch to their CIV. Build Athenai and send the galley with a settler to pompeii. In my game, I managed to build the great lighthouse and settle 2 GP there before Rome spawn. Try to build the Colossus in Athens as well as you will need a powerful city there to boost your research. Switch to Rome when available.

Done, now you have a solid and strong start with an already developed pompeii that will flip to you with the Great Lighthouse and 2 GPs (got a Great Scientist and Great Prophet in my game).

Conquer Athens immediately and send 2 or more legions to babylon to raid their cottages and earn you some gold. In addition, kill them when possible as they will be strong and so far ahead in the tech race (as you gave them one rich city in India). Conquering babylon will collapse them thus erasing this threat.

Now, try to pump at least 4 GP in your mega cities like Athens, Pompeii and even Rome (keep Republic as long as possible to help you with that) and bulb techs with them.

You will notice that China and India will be really backwards thanks to the damage you dealt early on.

After developing your cities, kill your neighbors to avoid any competitor and keep an eye on what anyone can research so you know what to research next. Also, do not trade any tech to anyone that you do not intend to kill or is really backwards.

Expect a few reloads during your gameplay as sometimes the AI can outrace you despite your strong start

If you did everything right you should be able to achieve the UHVs
 

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I would call civ switching cheating but on Paragon, nothing is cheating. Everything is fair and square against the AI.
 
I just found Aquileia rather than Aemonia Julia, only because hills are useful to work with in republics than flatlands and it also blocks barbarians from entering Italy willy nilly.
Conquering the eastern part can be postponed for a while, but taking out Carthage as early as possible is ideal, so that you dont bog down too hard and run the danger of Carthage of settling too many cities.
Egypt and Greece, should time passes, has a bad tendency of collapsing, making easy targets.
You can just build a settler in Bordeaux/Burdigala for London and sail to Britain. You have enough trees to chop.
 
The subject of this thread is wrong. Rome got one of the easiest UHVs even in Paragon.
 
Here are some Roman strategy tips based on my playthrough today on Paragon/Marathon game difficulty/speed and game version 1.17.1 (but not much have changed since earlier game versions):
* 4 core cities; Roma, Pompeii (north of Dye), Aemonia Julia (south of Pig) and Mediolanum (flips turn 2).
* Change civics (for free) on turn 1; Monarchy (+1 happy per troop in city) + Deification (+1 happy with Olympian Temple) , keep Slavery (you will capture the all workers you need early on) and Redistribution (fast growth of Rome). You need to focus on getting your core population up fast. So these 4 cities needs Granary and Aqueduct.
* Research Engineering (if by some rare setup you find someone already got this tech consider restarting as that means they are unusually advanced). For this tech will you trade 1-2 more cheap techs later on. The rest of the research order is not fixed but instead you have to look at what techs the other civs have and where they might snatch one of you techs in goal 3 before you. Prioritize accordingly. Also your GPs may be of a somewhat random kind and thus you may have to research differently.
* Don't settle any more cities than these until just before you have to for goal 2 (one turn before preferably). Even the 2 'free' cities in France can wait a while before you capture them.
* Don't be afraid to raze some city early on. You can not afford to have too many cities (max 9) as it will hurt your economy and thus science. Also never keep a city which is outside the goal 2 requirements.
* First turn put your 4 initial Legions in the 2 galleys and ship them towards Carthago (yes this will require some luck that they are not sunk on the next turn. But once you have landed your Legions taking Carthago (keep city) and potentially 1 more city (raze city) of Phoenicans in Africa should be feasible. Then your Legions will earn some city raider promotions making the rest even easier. Leave Phoenicans last city for later, you may peace them for now.
* As having a building in Rome makes the buildings cheaper for other cities to build you need to focus Rome of building all essential buildings and in the right order.Never build wonders in Rome. Get you production up in Rome early on by chopping forest and improving tiles near Rome first. Plan carefully when starting a new building on Rome as most cities will just follow along the same building order.
* On the second turn you will get your advanced start points. Spend them carefully and here are some hints. Rush an Olympic Temple in Rome (this will give Rome a headstart and thus give other cities cheaper building to build right from the start). Improve resources near your core cities. I prefer not to improve forest tiles as you then miss out on the production bonus for chopping. If you got some leftovers build a road.
* Ship captured workers towards your core cities as they are more important early on.
* Be ready to trade techs once this options opens up after a few turns. Yes the techs are expensive at Paragon diffculty but you will soon kill most of these civs anyway. You should be able to get 2-4 techs this way.
* Second war target is Greece. Athens is priority 1 as it usually have The Colossus. After that eliminate Greece without taking to many cities (they usually only have 2 cities, where one can optionally be razed).
* Third target is Egypt. Here you need to get 2 cities in Egypt area (important) and raze the rest. But if you can make them collapse and leave 1-2 independant cities alone in the south thats preferable.
* Now you have done the essential conquests. You can optionally finish of the Phoenicans by taking and razing their last city. It may depend on how many cities you have razed so far and how big their final city is, if it is feasible.
* Once you are done conquering keep your remaining and maybe newly built Legions at your northern border where Barbarians will spawn. A wall early on in these cities helps a lot.
* You will probably hit unstable but hopefully not collapsing once your starting turns ends and you see your stability.
* You do not have to focus to much on Goal 1 it will follow quite naturally. Only thing is to remember to build enough Barracks.
* You will need to pop atleast 3 GP to make all the techs in time. Here are a good choice for cities to spawn them (and roughly in this order): Egyptian capital with wonders (1+ GP), Carthage (1 GP) and Rome (1+ GP).
* When you researched Currency swap civics to Merchant Trade and Manorialism.
* Once you have researched Politics, you can optionally use Espionage to steal a few of the cheaper techs you are missing. But the gain from that is not huge with the Rome modifiers on Science.
* You will have done goal 3 (the 5 techs) many turns before goal 2's deadline at 320 AD and hopefully enjoyed the full golden age as well.
* Settle/capture your final cities on the very last turns to make goal 2. It may help to build and place the settlers on the prefered square many turns before. Especially London as its takes some turns to get there.
* Win and be tempted to keep playing your empire...

PS! my starting savegame of for game version 1.17.1 attached.

Now can we change the subject of this thread?
 

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Here are some Roman strategy tips based on my playthrough today on Paragon/Marathon game difficulty/speed and game version 1.17.1 (but not much have changed since earlier game versions):
* 4 core cities; Roma, Pompeii (north of Dye), Aemonia Julia (south of Pig) and Mediolanum (flips turn 2).
* Change civics (for free) on turn 1; Monarchy (+1 happy per troop in city) + Deification (+1 happy with Olympian Temple) , keep Slavery (you will capture the all workers you need early on) and Redistribution (fast growth of Rome). You need to focus on getting your core population up fast. So these 4 cities needs Granary and Aqueduct.
* Research Engineering (if by some rare setup you find someone already got this tech consider restarting as that means they are unusually advanced). For this tech will you trade 1-2 more cheap techs later on. The rest of the research order is not fixed but instead you have to look at what techs the other civs have and where they might snatch one of you techs in goal 3 before you. Prioritize accordingly. Also your GPs may be of a somewhat random kind and thus you may have to research differently.
* Don't settle any more cities than these until just before you have to for goal 2 (one turn before preferably). Even the 2 'free' cities in France can wait a while before you capture them.
* Don't be afraid to raze some city early on. You can not afford to have too many cities (max 9) as it will hurt your economy and thus science. Also never keep a city which is outside the goal 2 requirements.
* First turn put your 4 initial Legions in the 2 galleys and ship them towards Carthago (yes this will require some luck that they are not sunk on the next turn. But once you have landed your Legions taking Carthago (keep city) and potentially 1 more city (raze city) of Phoenicans in Africa should be feasible. Then your Legions will earn some city raider promotions making the rest even easier. Leave Phoenicans last city for later, you may peace them for now.
* As having a building in Rome makes the buildings cheaper for other cities to build you need to focus Rome of building all essential buildings and in the right order.Never build wonders in Rome. Get you production up in Rome early on by chopping forest and improving tiles near Rome first. Plan carefully when starting a new building on Rome as most cities will just follow along the same building order.
* On the second turn you will get your advanced start points. Spend them carefully and here are some hints. Rush an Olympic Temple in Rome (this will give Rome a headstart and thus give other cities cheaper building to build right from the start). Improve resources near your core cities. I prefer not to improve forest tiles as you then miss out on the production bonus for chopping. If you got some leftovers build a road.
* Ship captured workers towards your core cities aa they are more important early on.
* Be ready to trade techs once this options opens up after a few turns. Yes the techs are expensive at Paragon diffculty but you will soon kill most of these civs anyway. You should be able to get 2-4 techs this way.
* Second war target is Greece. Athens is priority 1 as it usually have The Colossus. After that eliminate Greece without taking to many cities (they usually only have 2 cities, where one can optionally be razed).
* Third target is Egypt. Here you need to get 2 cities in Egypt area (important) and raze the rest. But if you can make them collapse and leave 1-2 independant cities alone in the south thats preferable.
* Now you have done the essential conquests. You can optionally finish of the Phoenicans by taking and razing their last city. It may depend on how many cities you have razed so far and how big their final city is, if it is feasible.
* Once you are done conquering keep your remaining and maybe newly built Legions at your northern border where Barbarians will spawn. A wall early on in these cities helps a lot.
* You will probably hit unstable but hopefully not collapsing once your starting turns ends and you see your stability.
* You do not have to focus to much on Goal 1 it will follow quite naturally. Only thing is to remember to build enough Barracks.
* You will need to pop atleast 3 GP to make all the techs in time. Here are a good choice for cities to spawn them (and roughly in this order): Egyptian capital with wonders (1+ GP), Carthage (1 GP) and Rome (1+ GP).
* When you researched Currency swap civics to Merchant Trade and Manorialism.
* Once you have researched Politics, you can optionally use Espionage to steal a few of the cheaper techs you are missing. But the gain from that is not huge with the Rome modifiers on Science.
* You will have done goal 3 (the 5 techs) many turns before goal 2's deadline at 320 AD and hopefully enjoyed the full golden age as well.
* Settle/capture your final cities on the very last turns to make goal 2. It may help to build and place the settlers on the prefered square many turns before. Especially London as its takes some turns to get there.
* Win and be tempted to keep playing your empire...

PS! my starting savegame of for game version 1.17.1 attached.

Now can we change the subject of this thread?
I've never played marathon, only epic. I will try both and see if I can manage with your strategy. Switching to monarchy is a very interesting approach. I have been using caste system in turn 1 so my workers and legions could develop the land fairly quickly.
 
Never tried rome much, but these guides will probably be useful. We could argue that poland is even harder, considering UHV 3 is impossible (at least on Monarch and no predeveloped lands)
 
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