Romeo and Juilet

obliterate

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Ok. First of all this is an average book to read. Though it isn't meant to be read. The play wasn't bad. We've been studying it in English for a few months now and exams are coming up. I can't be bothered studying so I thought I'd post here. The question in the exam is probably got something to do with the question 'Who is to blame?' So anyway, discuss.
 
I wrote some paper on this last year when we read it in English. If you mean whose fault it is that they died, I think I blamed Romeo because he had acouple stupid things, like how he ran off to the cemetary from Mantua without stopping by to ask the Friar, etc.
 
Who is to blame? The fraggin parents for letting barely teen boys play with swords and act like they are men, for letting barely teen girls dress up and play at being grown women.

In short, the same people who are to blame today for much of the problems of our youth.
 
From a utilitarian (I guess is the right word) viewpoint, it is actually in the long run a good thing that they died - remember, their deaths forced their respective families to come to an agreement and stop their conflict, thus saving the lives of countless unnamed characters. Although of course in fiction the life of a main character is usually equal to the lives of hundreds or thousands of unnamed or "offscreen" characters.
 
Prince Verona, he should have cracked the two codgers' heads together right at the beginning :p
 
I blame society -- specifically, the social conventions of the parents' generation.

Romeo and Juliet themselves were basically behaving like typical young teenagers -- first love seems like the Most Important Thing Ever, and they were unable to think rationally beyond that. Juliet had another problem as well, as she was about to be married off for political/economic reasons to a much older man who she didn't know. Society/Church conventions said she had to obey her father and marry this man, and after her marriage she would have to obey her husband. Juliet decided to obey her own conscience, instead.


BTW, you really should study. Romeo and Juliet is one of the easiest of Shakespeare's plays to understand, and the most universally-relatable one. Just think of all the adaptations and variations done on it. ;)
 
I blame society -- specifically, the social conventions of the parents' generation.

Romeo and Juliet themselves were basically behaving like typical young teenagers -- first love seems like the Most Important Thing Ever, and they were unable to think rationally beyond that. Juliet had another problem as well, as she was about to be married off for political/economic reasons to a much older man who she didn't know. Society/Church conventions said she had to obey her father and marry this man, and after her marriage she would have to obey her husband. Juliet decided to obey her own conscience, instead.


BTW, you really should study. Romeo and Juliet is one of the easiest of Shakespeare's plays to understand, and the most universally-relatable one. Just think of all the adaptations and variations done on it. ;)

Hahahaha... yeah. If I was married off to some middle-aged guy by my parents, my reaction would be AT LEAST as dramatic as Juliet's. :lol:

And yes, you really should study. Romeo and Juliet is great fun! It's not that hard to understand, either.
 
qft.

we covered too much of his stuff freshman year. :shake:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks (Hamlet, Act II scene 2)

It was Greek to me (Julius Caesar, Act I scene 2)
 
I can't be bothered studying so I thought I'd post here.

Shakespeare is outrageously overrated.

qft.

we covered too much of his stuff freshman year. :shake:

I rebutted this a year or two ago...

...I'm sorry you didn't appreciate Shakespeare. What wasted your time the most? The rhythm? The language? Or the fact that all of his jokes about sex went right over your head?
 
Who is to blame? The fraggin parents for letting barely teen boys play with swords and act like they are men, for letting barely teen girls dress up and play at being grown women.

In short, the same people who are to blame today for much of the problems of our youth.

I now you're not really serious, but back then, you were a grown-up a lot earlier.

This guy was made cardinal when he was 14.
This guy became king when he was 8 and a half, and threw out his regent of a mother when he turned 15 - the hag should have let go two years earlier, as 13 was the coming of age at the time.

I blame society -- specifically, the social conventions of the parents' generation.

Romeo and Juliet themselves were basically behaving like typical young teenagers -- first love seems like the Most Important Thing Ever, and they were unable to think rationally beyond that. Juliet had another problem as well, as she was about to be married off for political/economic reasons to a much older man who she didn't know. Society/Church conventions said she had to obey her father and marry this man, and after her marriage she would have to obey her husband. Juliet decided to obey her own conscience, instead.

The issue I have with your argument is that you seem to imply Juliet was right to obey her own conscience and give the finger to social convention, which is something someone living today would say, but which was definitely not the case "back then"
 
Originally Posted by Irish Caesar
Or the fact that all of his jokes about sex went right over your head?

Be fair now an erectile dysfunction joke that refers to a fish no one's ever heard of before does have a higher bar to clear :rolleyes:
 
considering the enormous amount of shakespeare rip-offs and adaptations which have been around since forever (with a major resurgence in the 1990's at least) you would think you'd at last have the dignity to write *Juliet* correctly.

However, you do bring up a valid point, in a way. How do today's teachers keep youngsters who can't be arsed to sit down and study interested in Shakespeare? What are the reasons to do so? Clearly there have been more talented writers during the history of the English language, that is pretty much uncontested. Old Will wasn't even considered to be a genius in his time, only in the 18th century did he receive this status, maintaining it until today.

- One reason to study Shakespeare is that he has been studied intensely for nigh on about 300 years. You won't believe the amount of literature devoted to this. It can be argued that interpretation of texts is in itself a form of art, a form of science as well, a form of practicing and perfecting the art of argumentation? Hell yes. Take a walk in the library of Shakespearean studies here in Munich, the largest continental one of it's kind. Pick any topic, like for example who carries the blame in Romeo and Juliet. Make up your own mind if you want to or pick one of the available ones. Now prove that your theory is viable. Quote the original text or interpretations of it, disprove theories that are not concordant with your own. Sounds like a useful skill?

- It is, although it might appear snobbish, an indicator of education. Even a socially accepted one (being able to remember pi beyond the 100th fraction does rarely do this in most circles for some reason). Shakespear quotes abound in the every-day world, not to mention the mountain of words he invented. Ever heard about somebody asking for a pound of flesh? That there were more thing between heaven and earth that can be explained? That if you pinch me with a needle, do I not bleed? That all the world is a stage and we are merely players? To beware the ides of march? Et tu Brutus? I could go on but I don't want to bore you.

- The big one: does Shakespeare deserve the merits thrust upon him? Is not for example John Wilmot (2nd Earl of Rochester, you might have seen the movie The Libertine) a greater literary genius? I, for one, think that is the case but shouldn't you make up your own mind? Don't you have to look at least at one piece of his work in detail to judge? I btw groaned along with almost any other member of my class when we were told that we would be reading Macbeth way back in school, it just seemed like the right thing to do. After forcing myself through it, I still didn't like it. But I really needed a good grade so I read a bit more about. Loved it, haven't looked back in regret ever since. You might have a different experience and continue to be indefferent, but can't be bothered? That is so 1980...

- Everybody rips off Shakespeare. Everybody pays tribute to him. That is what being an icon is all about (even MTV does this on MTV... guess what? icons). Just two examples come to my mind right now and you might dismiss them depending on your preferences. A Sting song featuring the lines "my mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun" and an episode of Gilmore Girls (actually, I am convinced there were many) incorporating Shakespeare lines into their witty banter. It's fun to get these, not for everyone, of course. There is the low version of it, still fun though, of Romulo and I-forgot-her-name in WoW's Karakzhan (sp?). It is not as high-brow as you might think, it even gets into extremely popular video games!

- It is appropriate. While some of his texts are a bid on the bawdy side (I actually didn't get most of it at first. "It's a country matter" is referring to... you'll get there) there are many texts to choose from that are fit for adolescents. Take the above mentioned Earl of Rochester and you are left with maybe two poems (the only play usually accredited to him is called "Sodomy or the Quintessence of Debauchery". Guess what that is about).

Now there are arguments against it, no doubt. It is old, yeah. So is the Bible (or any other *original* religious text), Socrates or the Declaration of Independence. Americans usually love (forgive me for generalizing) anything in their country's history that is older than, say, 50 years and they should. But the language of your language is so much older (well, English ain't that old but it sure beats the frigging Mayflower) and part of your heritage.
I am sure most English teachers would rather teach with new materials and hand you a Shakespeare sonnet or two instead of doing Merchant of Venice for the eleventh time. Well, schools are usually dead poor and who is going to pay for 40-odd recent novels while the physics books are still from the year 1965? It is the good thing about literature, it is timeless every once in a while.

sorry for rambling, a plague on it!
 
The fact that it sucks ass.

Sorry, historians do agree that while some believe there to be some evidence of Shakespeare having had homosexual tendencies, no records indicate that he ever sucked ass.

proven fact.
 
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