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Rome's extra, somewhat hidden bonus

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by ShakaKhan, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan King

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    Not sure if this is common knowledge, but I haven't seen it referenced before, and it seems like it's a bit of a bug, or at least not intended.

    Rome has several of the best "civ builder" bonuses in the game, and some may overlook the power of the legion, which is the unit with the highest combat strength in the game at that point (str 40.) They also have this weird ability to build a Roman fort, which I found underwhelming. However, it seems that by giving legions the ability to make the fort, there must be some "builder coding" attached to that unit. The point is....

    Since the devs gave the Legion the ability to make a Roman fort, they also have the ability to repair tile improvements I(and I imagine they can remove improvements as well, though I haven't tested it.) Since repairing tile improvements cost no builder charge, a Legion can repair an infinite number of tiles. This leads to an interesting strategic option for Rome, attacking a city, pillaging every tile that has an improvement and collecting tons of extra gold, culture faith, etc. as well as healing, taking the city and keeping it, then having the legions spend a few turns polishing the city's lands. It seems like a strategy befitting to Norway, but Rome does it better because of the legion's ability.
     
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  2. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    They can also clear nuclear fallout, which you get an achievement for doing.
     
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  3. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    Since it can clear fallout, I think it was intentional. But it only works if you haven't used the Legion's charge yet.
     
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  4. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    The varu is better as a combat unit better imo as it has 40 strength and adjacent enemy units receive -5 Combat Strength. I fear them more than legions anyway.
     
  5. WileyWilson

    WileyWilson Chieftain

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    I'd not thought of that, but it sounds like an exploit. Certainly not needed with the AI in it's current form.
     
  6. footslogger

    footslogger Warlord

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    Why? The AI is a total imbecile when it comes to combat. That's the main problem with the game, nothing to fear from the AI.
     
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  7. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Questionable design? Maybe. But most certainly not an "exploit", after all, there's an achievement that asks you to make use of the Not-so-obvious-abilities of the Legion.
     
  8. fodazd

    fodazd Chieftain

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    You can also repair pillaged Improvements with Builders for no builder charge. The "pillage everything and then repair"-strategy is also available to every other civ.
     
  9. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    Indeed. Especially since you can usually hoover up a free Builder or two during a conquest.
     
  10. WileyWilson

    WileyWilson Chieftain

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    Some players might use builders/legion to repair intentionally pillaged tiles to get "free" resources. I only pillage tiles I'm not planning to use.
     
  11. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    Varus are more expensive, can't be pre-built and fall as easily as Legions against massed Archers. While Varus are individually stronger, Legions may be strategically more solid.
     
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  12. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    Seems I'm not the only one who appreciates what a pain those varu can be
    Ghandi is super annoying early on because the elephants tank so much and he spams them, that's the only time WW can be dangerous so be careful with him, try to take a city or so and get out of the war/go for someone else a bit if you can't end him quickly.

    They are 10 cogs more ( <10%) and for that you get the -5 modifier for adjacent units, line of sight can be blocked by terrain which means you can find that varu right next to you. Happened to me with a jungle start. Oh and the AI doesn't upgrade it's units so Trajan doesn't spam legions but Gandhi does spam varu.

    For example on a diety game Trajan and Gandhi both dow me on the same turn; Trajan sent a heavy chariot, Gandhi sent a wave of varu. My expansion city did not stand a chance as they came crashing out of the jungle.
     
  13. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    Ouch, that hurts a lot. But I've seen Trajan massing Legions in some games (though usually he's on another continent).

    Also, Varus only upgrade to Tanks, meaning you can't upgrade them until late game. That shuts them out from a Knight (why'd you build Heavy Chariots if you have Varus?) or a Cavalry rush. Tthough the civ itself isn't really designed for war. Rome's Legions still upgrade to Musketmen and retain that charge for improvements.

    Sadly, these aren't worth a dime in the hands of the AI.
     
  14. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan King

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    The thread wasn't about Varu vs. Legion. It was about the Legion being able to fix improvements. I noticed that they can do it, there's nothing in the civilopedia that says they can, and I noticed even some of the more experienced LPers appeared to be unaware of this. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew about it. Yes, it is something that a builder can do and doesn't cost that builder a charge, but the area in which the task is performed is inherently contested territory, and unlike builders, Legions can't be stolen by a warrior with 1HP.
     
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  15. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    Sorry for hijacking the thread. But now on topic, did you see if they can also remove improvements?
     
  16. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    In that case why suggest it was the best combat unit? I was just offering evidence that it isn't necessarily the best UU for combat in that era.
     
  17. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    But he said "which is the unit with the highest combat strength in the game at that point", not "best combat unit" or "best UU for combat". One could argue that it's "incorrect because of omission", because there's a unit that has the same combat strength, but in no way did he imply that the Legion is the best combat unit. You're defending the Varu against an "accusation" that wasn't even there.

    @topic: Haven't tested it either, but yeah, the Legion should be able to remove Improvements as well. There's only specific worker actions for "placing an improvement" in the database, and unlike in Civ 5 maintenance actions like removing or repairing stuff aren't "pseudo-improvements" anymore and come with the base "You're a worker-ish unit"-package.

    Which unfortunately also means that this can not easily be changed by mods.
     
  18. greygamer

    greygamer Feudal Lord

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    Fair comment ...consider my tiger crouched and dragon hidden :blush:
     
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  19. bmrigs

    bmrigs Chieftain

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    Don't forget that Roman armies at the time were also builders and engineers when they needed to cross over rivers and other natural obstacles and it didn't take them long to do it. Just one of the reasons why Rome was so powerful.
     
  20. theodcyning

    theodcyning Chieftain

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    Most of the time when I conquer a city, I get a builder anyway. Then the builder just goes and repairs all the tiles.
     

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