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Rome's Top 3 worst defeats

Discussion in 'World History' started by BOTP, Sep 8, 2004.

  1. BOTP

    BOTP Warlord

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    It is quite ironic that the greatest and most efficient empire in history was probably that of Rome, yet three of the most smashing defeats of an army in military history came at her expense. One was during her rise just before she was an international power, the 2nd occurred during her zenith, and the third was when she was decadent and near collapse.

    1. In 216 B.C., Hannibal inflicted perhaps the most devastating defeat ever on an army in military history, annhilating 8 legions, the largest Rome ever pitted on the field, within few hours. His classic double-envelopment resulted in the destruction of 80% of a total Roman force of over 90,000 foot and horse. Cannae would enter military textbooks as the model of a perfect battle of annihilation, and never again would an army rely solely on superior numbers of infantry. Cannae was not only one of the bloodiest battles of ancient times, it was one of the bloodiests battles of all time. Around 70,000 Romans and a few thousand Carthaginians were killed in a few hours of fighting. There are few instances in history were such a one-sided battle has so many men been killed. And it was all thanks to Hannibal's genius.

    2. In A.D. 9, three legions led by Q. Varus, numbering some 15,000 soldiers and auxiliary cavalry, practically all perished at the Teutoburger Wald (the Rhineland) at the hands of Arminius I, known in Germany as Hermann. Germany would prove unqonquerable to Rome.

    3. In A.D. 378, the Goths led by Fritigern, destroyed the 60,000 force of foot and horse under Valens, the Byzantine emperor. 50,000 or so swift Gothic horsemen joined the same number of infantry and descended upon and surrounded Valens' force near Adrianople, a town in modern Bulgaria. The result was comparable to Cannae, with 3/4 of Valens', including himself, wiped out. This smashing win marked the arrival of the Goths in western Europe and altered warfare from infantry to cavalry dominance for the next millenia or so.
     
  2. pawpaw

    pawpaw Now Farve-Proof

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  3. bigmeat

    bigmeat The weapon of choice

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    i can't disagree there
     
  4. blindside

    blindside formerly god

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    I think there should be a seperate forum for Roman history. Half the questions are here about Rome, I'm so sick of it. Overkill. First there was darkness, then Trajan came and the world was colorful and then history ended.
     
  5. jack merchant

    jack merchant Internationalist

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    As Roman defeats go, the battle of Arausio (105BC) was far worse than the Teutoburger Wald, the Romans losing anywhere between 60,000 to 80,000 men at the hands of the Cimbri.
     
  6. Xen

    Xen Magister

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    as far as battles go, Tuetoburge wald i dont think counts; the Romans are reputed as to have been unable to fight back in the first place after all; and no matter what, it wasnt a battle in any Roman (or most other military) sense

    otherwise i cant disagree; it was the bloody defeats that pointed out the weaknesses of the Roman army, and forced the Roman nation to reform its armies, to make the perfect army, or a tleast as close to it as it could, as the situation ecomomically an dpolitically in the late empire hardley lent itself to the Roman state being able to reform to anything properlly (though, obviouslly, the investment in cataphracts paid off well, considering Roman infantry had been going down the tubes since round about the latter portion fo the 3rd century)
     
  7. Xen

    Xen Magister

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    that said, even i thinkt he Roman threads are getting damn annoying; leave the imperial armies be, and ask your questions of culutre or politics; you have about beat the interest of the peoples interest in military history in the ancient and middle ages to death. There is more to history then blood and gore, and while as all will suspect, and most will acknowledge, that i will be first and foremost to harald the supremecy of Roman arms on as many occasions as possible; its been over done, and its either time to give it a rest, or find a new group fo forums to continue your over beat, over worked, always repetive thread topics on.
     
  8. North King

    North King blech

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    Why does it not count? In reality, it was the perfect example of the use of advantageous terrain and ambush tactics.

    Amen. I am sick of the Roman army threads, its pretty much established who thinks they had a truly unstoppable military machine, and who thinks it was a load of luck.
     
  9. BOTP

    BOTP Warlord

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    if you guys are sick of Roman threads then why reply to them?
     
  10. dgfred

    dgfred Sports Freak

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    Not only that, why read them at all :confused: :dubious:
     
  11. Xen

    Xen Magister

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    it's here, we're here, so we all might as well read and reply.
     
  12. Knight-Dragon

    Knight-Dragon Unhidden Dragon Retired Moderator

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  13. dgfred

    dgfred Sports Freak

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    :eek: :cringe: :wow: Can you imagine what the battlefield looked like
    afterwards---- what CARNAGE!
     
  14. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

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    Look at Verdun. Even today the battle traces are visable. Nevertheless Teutoburg was far more important as it was the battle that drove the Romans out of Germany.

    Adler
     
  15. Domen

    Domen Misico dux Vandalorum

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    Carrhae was much more devastating than Teutoburg Forest, with about 30,000 Romans killed or captured.

    ================================================

    An incomplete (most certainly) list of some major Roman military defeats:

    Place, Year - Victors (Victorious Commander):

    Naval battles:

    Lipari Islands 260 BC - Carthaginians
    Drepanum 249 BC - Carthaginians (Adherbal)

    Land battles:

    Pometia 502 BC - Latins
    Cremera 477 BC - Etruscans
    Allia River 390 BC - Gauls (Brennus)
    Sack of Rome 390 BC - Gauls (Brennus)
    Vesuvius 339 BC - Latins
    Caudine Forks 321 BC - Samnites (Gaius Pontius)
    Lautulae 316 BC - Samnites
    Camerinum 298 BC - Samnites (Gellius Equatius)
    Arretium 285 BC - Gauls (Britomaris)
    Heraclea 280 BC - Epirotes (Pyrrhus)
    Asculum 279 BC - Epirotes (Pyrrhus)
    Tunis 255 BC - Carthaginians (Xanthippus)
    Faesulae 225 BC - Gauls
    Ticinus River 218 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Trebia River 218 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Lake Trasimene 217 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Ager Falernus 217 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Cannae 216 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    1st Capua 212 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Silarus River 212 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Herdonia 212 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Upper Baetis River 211 BC - Carthaginians (Hasdrubal Barca)
    2nd Herdonia 210 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Numistro 210 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    Asculum 209 BC - Carthaginians (Hannibal)
    1st Lamia 209 BC - Macedonians (Philip V)
    2nd Lamia 209 BC - Macedonians (Philip V)
    Callicinus 171 BC - Macedonians (Perseus)
    Suthul 110 BC - Numidians (Jugurtha)
    Rhone River 109 BC - Helvetii
    Muthul River 108 BC - Numidians (Jugurtha)
    Burdigala 107 BC - Helvetii (Divico)
    Arausio 105 BC - Cimbri & Teutones (Boiorix & Teutobod)
    Fucine Lake 89 BC - Italians
    Baetis River 80 BC - Iberians & Roman Rebels (Quintus Sertorius)
    Picenum 72 BC - Slave Rebels (Spartacus)
    1st Mutina 72 BC - Slave Rebels (Spartacus)
    Campania 71 BC - Slave Rebels (Spartacus)
    Carrhae 53 BC - Parthians (Surena)
    Assault of Gergovia 52 BC - Gauls (Vercingetorix)
    Ruspina 46 BC - Numidian & Gallic auxiliares (Titus Labienus)
    Clades Lolliana 16 BC - Germanic tribes
    Teutoburg Forest 9 AD - Germanic tribes (Arminius)
    Camulodunum 60 AD - British Celts (Boudica)
    Rhandeia 62 AD - Parthians & Armenians (Tiridates)
    Beth Horon 66 AD - Jewish Rebels (Eleazar ben Simon)
    1st Tapae 87 AD - Dacians (Decebalus)
    Hatra 117 AD - Parthians
    Siege of Aquilea 169 AD - Marcomanni, Quadi
    Carnuntum 170 AD - Marcomanni (Ballomar)
    Siege of Hatra 198/199 AD - Parthians
    Nisibis 217 AD - Parthians (Artabanus IV)
    Misiche 244 AD - Persians (Shapur I)
    Philippopolis 250 AD - Goths (Cniva)
    Abrittus 251 AD - Goths (Cniva)
    Barbalissos 253 AD - Persians (Shapur I)
    Edessa 260 AD - Persians (Shapur I)
    Placentia 271 AD - Alamanni, Marcomanni, Juthungi
    Callinicum 296 AD - Persians (Narseh)
    Reims 356 AD - Alamanni
    Siege of Amida 359 AD - Persians (Shapur II)
    Samarra 363 AD - Persians (Merena)
    Adrianople 378 AD - Goths (Fritigern)
    Thessalonica 380 AD - Goths (Fritigern)
    Mainz 406 AD - Vandals, Suevi, Alans (Godegisel, Respendial)
    Sack of Rome 410 AD - Visigoths (Alaric)
    Utus 447 AD - Huns (Attila)
    Sack of Rome 455 AD - Vandals (Genseric)
    Carthage 468 AD - Vandals (Genseric)
    Soissons 486 AD - Franks (Clovis I)
     
  16. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    You know necroing threads is against board rules, Domen?
     
  17. Domen

    Domen Misico dux Vandalorum

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    Unless u swiftly come, swiftly necro it and fast fast get out (like "Veni, Vidi, Vici a Thread").
     
  18. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    that really wasn't a clever response at all, nor does it address the reason why necroing is against the rules.

    Frequently these decade-old threads are filled with tons of popular misinformation that are annoying to read, and can mislead newcomers to this board. Plus the original posters are long gone and don't really care what you have to contribute.
     
  19. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    But people must know random gibberish about Poland.
     
  20. ArguCa

    ArguCa Prince

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    Battle of the Teutoburg Forest
    Battle of Carrhae
    Battle of Yarmouk

    this is my list :)
     

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