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Root Mafia (Game Thread - Mafia Victory)

Discussion in 'Mafia/NOTW' started by pzelda, Feb 21, 2021.

  1. Inawordyes

    Inawordyes In a word: Illyria

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    Your vote was bad, your reasoning was bad, I am calling you out on it, so I am not the one who needs to defend myself here, and I am not going to take your bait and let it be flipped around on me
     
  2. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    I was about to post "yes".

    But I think I'll try to articulate the thing I have in mind.

    ---
    Of course most people pay attention to what is being said about them. But I think several factors have to be taken into account, among which personnality and alignment. I think the later is more important.
    There are exceptions to everything but I think generally it goes like this.

    - Townies: Some will read everything, some won't. Some will care about how they are being read, some won't. Some won't even read the set up and derp about it. There it's pretty much personnality based. Sometimes skills/experience too

    - Scums: Unless extreme IRL circonstances, they are much more prone to read everything, and to try to influence the thread flow and the gamestate. Usually more subtil and less reactive (self-awareness can kick in) but it's there.

    ---

    And you showed up just when I was saying this about G1K. So I guess you disagree with the read?

    What do you think about G1K? What do you think about El and Esooa pushing him for that post about Tak flipping red and its implications?
     
  3. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    mafia101: "Fair enough" is a scumtell

     
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  4. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    No, the timing was just a coincidence.

    I think that G1K's comment about someone flipping not necessarily being alignment-indicative is on its face accurate enough, but I dunno why anyone would claim (even flippantly) to be power wolfing.

    Given that Takh has built a not-undeserved reputation for frequently being deliberately unreadable, I'm not sure whether his flipping scum would be any different to actually being town.
     
  5. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    You might want to consider the possibility, if you are town, that I am too and would like to see if your thought process makes any sense. What do you see as my reasoning and why was it bad. You do need to defend the reasons for your stated suspicions just the same as anyone else. How otherwise is anyone to evaluate you?. The fact it's coming from the person you say you're sussing doesn't change that -- I have better perspective than anyone on my own reasoning and how good or bad it actually was -- and you're just coming off as defensive for no reason. It's not usually difficult for townies to say what they were thinking at the time of suspecting someone; even a lot of wolves would be able to do it in a multiball. So I don't understand this.
     
  6. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    Let me elaborate a little further.

    There's this study or something I read on catching liars. The people running the study set up 100 or so people to train to lie about their identity to some kind of authority (think airport screener, police interrogator, I can't remember). The authorities themselves were trained in various techniques to detect lies (body language, word choices, bunch of stuff). And you know what the ONLY thing was that worked? Asking the potential liars for details of their choices and their decisions. What did they do and when did they do it. How did they travel from Innsbruck to Amsterdam. What train did they take.

    I want to know what train you took.
     
  7. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Not the timing, but the fact you decided to reply to this particularly.

    I don't think it's what he posted but whatever. I do think it's not accurate, not even remotely close. The multiball settings and the fact it's Tak is somewhat making it more difficult but a red flip is the best thing it can happen for town. For the flip, for the spews, for the movements (both in thread and votes) around the yeetee, etc...

    Yes it would. I got Ranmilia scum D2 because Tak flipped red D1 in one MU game last year.

     
  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    Well, obviously, killing scum is what town needs to do, but I was meaning more Takhisis in general, given that he's so frequently a vote-magnet (and usually not unwarranted either).
     
  9. Inawordyes

    Inawordyes In a word: Illyria

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    So here’s the thing, I asked you first and you’re not explaining your reasoning. And the fact that you’re calling for me to consider a hypothetical where you’re town, when that’s exactly what you voted for me because of when I did it for Johanna despite my vote on them, is hypocritical and very frustrating for me

    but fine, I’ll indulge you - I did not trust Jo, I made that very clear, and my vote is very easily understandable considering what Jo did on D1. However, one thing that you should about me is that I do not take D1 very seriously as far as reads. I am crap at getting people right, so I don’t particularly try unless something really stands out as scummy, and I also don’t care if I ML a townie from the standpoint that if you look scummy enough to get voted out on D1, it’s better for the rest of the town for you to be out of the game instead of being shielded by the Mafia and used as an easy vote scapegoat later down the line.

    However, that being said, I was not tunneling Jo either, and I saw their EoD was improving. So Jo says “don’t vote me, I’m town, it’s a bad choice”, then okay. Let’s assume that you are town, then where do we go from here and who do you think is Mafia? Jo ignored the question and had a chance to save themselves and didn’t take it, so that’s on them I would say, at least as far as my vote is concerned.

    Enter Renata, stage left. Renata looks at the thread, sees that Iawy is voting for Jo but has asked Jo “hey, let’s assume you’re not Mafia, who should we be voting for that’s not you?” and decides “woah, that’s scummy and sus as heck” and votes Iawy. There is nothing wrong or AI with what I asked of Jo, and framing it as if it is scummy and voting for me at EoD is not a good look for you at all. You also talk about me explaining myself, but you still have not explained your vote on me, all you said was that you hated the comment and then here during the night said I was sus as heck at EoD. That does not fly with me, I know I did not have a good D1 for quite a few reasons, and you’re right that I am being defensive, and I know that, but I will never accept a scumread or a vote on me that is not explained, because I am the type of player that is very easy to push as a ML just because of the way I post and what I say and do, so if you’re going to start and/or hop on a bandwagon without explaining why, I am going to call you out on it

    So your turn Renata, what exactly did I do at EoD that was so sus that you threw away your vote at EoD onto me? Because you are ignoring the question and not explaining yourself while demanding that I explain my sus of you, and that is no bueno
     
  10. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    I'm going to struggle to put this into words as it was a snap judgment; bear with me.

    Your account of yourself up to here: "However, that being said, I was not tunneling Jo either, and I saw their EoD was improving." I don't contest. My thing is, I think, that you're still making demands of her after that point. As if you were angry that her image was improving and were looking for some excuse to keep your vote on her (and which you did in fact get, and do). Aside from that, it's your specific wording, which again, came across as frustrated (that you might lose a lynch) as opposed to actually looking for more information (because what more information could you get? you already know she's not really contributing).

    tl;dr it was the tone of frustration that set me off. I struggle to see a townie as being frustrated or demanding there. It's easy to see a wolf who worries an easy mislynch may be slipping away based on comments from me and I think others.

    Then on top of that, I was struggling to find a non-Johanna vote. None of my preferred candidates was on the chopping block whatsoever, so I was stuck with a plethora of options I had too little information on to make an informed choice, and no time with which to fix the situation. (I didn't go into it much yesterday but I was multitasking massively.) I had to either rely on other people's judgment or find somethin in EoD that might make a difference. IIRC Rhand said something about Loderingo and somebody else (G1K?) that rang true to me -- much more so about G1K, actually, but Rhand voted Loderingo. I decided to bandwagon Lod as an alternative since G1K wasn't going to be an option. Then after I did so, noticed that Loderingo's other vote was someone I was suspicious of, plus Rhand being admitted third party and I was like, yeah, this is dumb.

    Then your comment pinged me, and I knew you'd had some suspicion and was fairly sure you had votes, so I switched to that bandwagon (which turned out not to be much a bandwagon after all) instead.

    In the end, the complete chaos and lack of vote counts at end of day made it impossible for me to judge where my vote might be most useful, but I tried.
     
  11. Golden1Knight

    Golden1Knight Emperor

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    Alright, so I had a brief derp by answering something that was not even meant to me and this has become some sort of hot topic around here.

    *sigh*

    Regarding my comment on Tak's hypothetical red flip not helping: I meant not helping in that particular context (ie regarding my own alignment for suposedly advocating against his wagon; thats where the "maybe I'm powerwolfing" comment comes in, as a way to say that any wolf could openly help his buddy). Frigging obviously yeeting scum is aways good - and our objetive here after all - so your entire argument around me saying that killing scum being bad for morale is pointless since no player would ever make a statement like that. It makes no sense at all and I see that as an easy topic for jumping in and showing off out some 'townie' moment on stage. It has become a huge derp and it is wasting town energy, so I would rather not comment any further about the matter.
     
  12. Inawordyes

    Inawordyes In a word: Illyria

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    I can understand from that perspective where you were coming then. I was frustrated with Jo, very much so, because they basically took the attitude of “I want to vote you out, but I don’t want to vote you out too hard, I want you to end up in a tie vote”, which makes no sense and seemed more like an excuse on the part of a Mafia player to justify throwing votes at me to tie the vote in case one of their scumbuddies ended up as a wagon, either Jo voting to me possibly save them via the rand or them voting me to save Jo. So Jo playing the “I am town, and you can vote me, that’s fine; but I am still town” card was annoying because I did think it was genuine but I didn’t want to believe she was actually town, which I guess then is what you picked up on - I wasn’t consciously trying to come across frustrated, and I reread my post there and I don’t see it, but IIRC you were the one who said you’re also a tonereader like me, so if anyone were to sus it out, it would be you. If she had thrown out a name, I might have switched anyways, but she ignored me and dug her own grave in that sense. But I didn’t really want her to be town, so in that way you are spot-on.

    An issue I have with this post, though, is that to me, it feels, especially with the explanation of your in-the-moment thinking, like a right-now justification to wave away why you are still sussing me in the present. To say that I was continuing to make demands of her after the post where I asked for the hypothetical is disingenuous when that was my last post of the day. I asked her that question, she never responded, and I said nothing more to her or anyone until during the night phase, obv after she’s already died and flipped town. And to frame it as “wolf worries easy yeet is slipping” would basically have to mean that I, as a wolf, had a scumbuddy on the block who would have been voted out if Jo wasn’t chopped there, but you’re not looking at “okay, if this is the case, then was Iawy protecting X, can Iawy/X be W/W”, you’re using a W/W partner line of logic but applying it only to only one person, and that is very strange

    Again, for your in-the-moment thinking, I can somewhat understand from a townie POV - you thought Jo was town, you didn’t want Jo to be voted out because you thought was Jo was town and going to be a ML, so you looked for other wagons, and eventually settled on me because you didn’t like how I was talking to Jo while voting on her, and the lack of easily-accessible votecount tallies tripped you up to where you didn’t know that I wasn’t the CW anymore (which implies you probably would have voted for Chox if you knew they were the CW instead?)

    I get it, I don’t agree because I was not out of line and it’s NAI at best considering it’s not out of my town range but I’d do it as both alignments, but I get it. Continuing to double down on the “Iawy was super sus at EoD” train and your justification for doubling down now, though, is a bit problematic to me, since you want me to step into a hypothetical world where you’re town, and approach your past and present actions from the POV of someone who is town (which I did/am trying to do), but again, there is hypocrisy because you seem to want to hold me to account on a standard that you’re not setting for yourself, because you are not seemingly trying to make an effort to step into my shoes and see my actions from a townie POV.

    And you know what, it frustrates the heck out of me, but I actually lowkey want to townread you for it, but it’s like a really begrudging townread :lol:

    I am trying really hard not to be defensive - it’s all excuses at the end of the day, so take with a grain of salt ofc, but playing on a new site, with a bunch of people I don’t know, without a hunch of QoL features I’m used to such as the ability to easily ISO or check votes, and during the week when I’m crazy busy with work and not able to give my full attention anyways; all of it threw me off and being labeled as defensive very early on is making me very self-conscious about how I’m coming across now because I don’t want to be backed into a corner and scumread for it, which is having the self-fulfilling prophecy effect of exacerbating my defensiveness and now I’m the one backing into that corner myself. Weh
     
  13. Inawordyes

    Inawordyes In a word: Illyria

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    I write a lot of words, sorry
     
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  14. LordArgon

    LordArgon King

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    Hey guys Esooa is fake claiming. I am the actual mason with Rask. I can prove it too. Rask post the message I just sent you in our secret mason chat.
     
  15. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    "I am the town cop"
     
  16. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    I think both Iawy and Renata are villas
     
  17. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    LA, what is your take on the game so far?
     
  18. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    Yeah, you do. I'm happy to sit with this for a while and see what happens.

    One clarification -- my comment about "continuing to make demands of her" was referring to that single post. It wasn't meant to suggest anything had followed it.

    And I had no idea who else might in danger, only that someone must be. At some point if I live that long I'll have to go back and try to untangle that mess* but there is no chance in hell I'm doing it now.

    *maybe
     
  19. Legacy of Smiles

    Legacy of Smiles Prince

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    Did I miss my chance to claim masons with Rask too?
     
  20. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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