RSG03 (Deity) - Random Attempt at Redemption

[Gurra09]

France seems to be in the lead so I'll assume that's the direction where we're going. I think France is a great civ for a tall cultural victory, start out with Tradition and really let Paris grow. Their UA is doubled theming bonus for buildings and wonders in the capital which can be quite a good amount of tourism.

World Religion resolution would boost that even more with the +50% tourism so if we go France we should try and get a decent religion going. This won't be too hard if we're lucky enough to get the Desert Folklore pantheon.

I don't know if it's a general fact or just chance, but in many of my later games most AIs tend to favour Liberty, Honor and Piety trees over Tradition. That could open up Hanging Gardens for us if we go Tradition, making Paris a real growth center.

You are right that we need to focus more on military though. It didn't go too well in our first deity RSG with Portugal. Archers are on the way to Mathematics, which is good, and since we need Mining for the gold resource the compbows aren't too far away.

 

[Olodune]

It looks like the France game is going to win out here. It's hard to plan too far ahead, but, for that start:

Scout -> ?
Mining -> Pottery

I think we want Tradition here since there are many good tiles to work from what we see so far. 2-pop'ing a setter might make sense with the tiles I see. Settle in place, I think.

Are we stealing workers? If not we want to build the first worker early.

It's a little too early to think about Petra, but I'd just as soon skip it unless we scout enough to be confident that it is a safe build.

 

[Gurra09]

I usually start out Scout => Monument => switch to Shrine when Pottery is researched. Especially since the last patch when free culture buildings were moved down in the Tradition tree. Nowadays I usually get me a free Amphitheatre in the capital from that policy and hard build the Monument.

But I don't play much on Deity at all so I'm not too familiar with the best early game strategies here.

 

[Olodune]

For Tradition I prefer:

Scout -> Scout -> Worker/Settler (If culture ruin)
Scout -> Scout -> Monument (If no cr)

If we're not stealing then I think a strong case can be made for:

Scout -> Worker -> Monument -> Scout

Double scout gets punished by isolated or small continent type starts which is a possibility here. Truly isolated -> worker or monument first.

I personally don't like early shrines, but the payoff here is potentially huge if we can land DF. Your build is a little riskier but possibly better, so there'll be no complaints from me if you want to roll with it

As usual, we won't know what is best until after the fact

 

[stormtrooper412]

I wouldn't build a second scout if the map is Continents. Will it say once it loads or does it remain "random" all game long?

Also, if we're not stealing workers, fat chance of getting Petra tbqh.

I suggest

Continents: Scout -> Monument -> Worker -> Settler -> Settler and take over from there

Pangaea: Scout -> Monument -> Scout -> Settler/Worker

If we pop a culture ruin at any point, Monument is off if we're doing Tradition

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Assuming we go France, I'd go scout-monument-shrine-(worker/scout?) into liberty and desert folklore. Rivers without deltas indicate we are probably off-center on a larger landmass. Pots-AH to hunt for horses, calendar after we get a worker (we'll have mining by then to keep him occupied, most likely). As with last game, Petra is only something I consider if we a) go liberty and b) get a GE to pop it with. With a cultural victory in mind, however, the liberty path is probably going to get scrapped.

The Byz start (without water) looks like it has greater odds of being on a smaller landmass, and Tradition with 2-food settler might be wiser to kickstart ourselves. Maybe 3-food if we want to sneak a granary in. Pots-mining with an eye on masonry and optics. Looks like it's what I'll be doing as a side show while stormtrooper and consentient take the dare and win 75 turns before I do

Military paths would depend highly on what our scouts find - I'm of a mind to take revenge on last game and capture a pliable neighbor's capital, should we have such a thing.

Will it say once it loads or does it remain "random" all game long?

Eventually, you figure it out - I'm pretty sure it remains undeclared.

 

[Gurra09]

The map type is Shuffle. not Random. So the world could be of any shape because it randomises everything, rather than Random which only randomises which map script to use.

And even if the map type was Random (which it isn't), I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have been told which map it was so that wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[consentient]

Why wouldn't we steal workers if we had the chance?


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[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Why wouldn't we steal workers if we had the chance?

Honor rules and whatnot. I have no problem either way, but never limit myself like that in solo games.

 

[consentient]

Well I don't mind that much but if you've left everything to random chance, stealing workers might help give us the edge, especially if we've got Oda for a neighbour or something


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[Sir Bugsy]

Excellent discussion!

I like the idea of going for tradition.

The last part of the discussion brings up a good point, do we play honorably (i.e. - no stealing workers)? Now if a worker is captured by the barbs, I don't think we have to give it back. I am against stealing a city state's worker through a war declaration.

Tech- I think pottery-mining would be a good start.

Builds - Definitely scout first. I usually go for a monument second, but then I usually go for liberty as a social tree. Without liberty, I think a worker either second or third is critical.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Well I don't mind that much but if you've left everything to random chance, stealing workers might help give us the edge, especially if we've got Oda for a neighbour or something

I'm not worried about Oda. I'm worried about Attila being too close.

 

[consentient]

The last part of the discussion brings up a good point, do we play honorably (i.e. - no stealing workers)?....I usually go for a monument second, but then I usually go for liberty as a social tree. Without liberty, I think a worker either second or third is critical.

I'm in favour of stealing workers, and I think that if you're not going to, then for sure Scout>Monument>Worker.

I'm not worried about Oda. I'm worried about Attila being too close.

Oda is worse. Attila spams Rams which are useless unless in the hex next to your city. Oda has cheat mode where he can make 5x the units that any other AI can make. I've had a T45 DoW from Oda where he had like 30 units

 

[stormtrooper412]

Heed his words, team, Japan as neighbor = nasty, Japan in the distance = ally for he entire game.

Also, if we opt Liberty in the end (has the game started yet?) I'd like to pay attention to nearby people, we *might* bump into a poor sucker friendly builder who'd build ToA and/or HG for us

Looks like it's what I'll be doing as a side show while stormtrooper and consentient take the dare and win 75 turns before I do

Unless you average 350+ turns in a game, no chance

 

[Gurra09]

Let's get this started then! Settler settles in place and the city of Paris-sur-le Nil (Napoleon in the desert!) emerges on the desert hill. Training a scout and researching Pottery. Any complaints in the tech department or can I go on?

(It's 1AM here and I need to go to bed rather than get sucked into this, so won't play until tomorrow anyway. Just wanted to share the founding of our glorious capital with you all.)

Spoiler screenshot :

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

All good!

So is the consensus Culture VC, Tradition, scout-monument with Pots->mining ? I like very early settlers with tradition and thus take AH 2nd to help scout city locations. Should we go worker 3rd build (before settler), mining is a solid 2nd tech.

I'm leaving for almost a week tomorrow morning, will check here but can't play, so skip me to the end if it rolls at such a pace.

 

[Olodune]

All good!
I like very early settlers with tradition and thus take AH 2nd to help scout city locations.

Seconding the all good.

I also like very early settlers - so much so that I'll usually go mining/AH before pottery. That kills the shrine option though

 

[consentient]

It's Deity so a shrine doesn't really make the difference between getting DF or not. Though Festivals is another possibility. I'm OK with going for a shrine.

How is decision making done here? By consensus/democracy, etc? When it's my turn I'll happily consider feedback, but I'll be doing what I can to play best to achieve the stated VC.

One more thing: the MOST crucial aspect of a CV is diplomacy. Can I recommend that we discuss all DoFs etc. before proceeding? And if Venice is in the game, never make DoF with them.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I agree, if Venice are on the map, shoot first and ask questions later, the old blind man is the most annoying pushover in the game

 

[Gurra09]

Great feedback! And no, not everything has to be debated first. If a decision comes up during your turn, make it according to the general plan and go on unless it's something major.

So my final plan for the first 20 turns is:
Pottery => Mining => AH tech-wise
Scout => Worker => switch to Shrine => finish Worker build-wise - if we're going Tradition the early monument isn't too important.

The spoilers are screenshots (or parts of screenshots). My turn log got a little more picture heavy than planned.

T4: We met Ramesses up north, he seems to be close.

Spoiler :

T5: Scout done in Paris-sur-le Nil, and they start on a Worker.

T6: We meet the Inca and manage to take an Ancient Ruin from right under their Scout's nose. We got 90 gold.

Spoiler :

T7: Our scout pops a ruin that reveals a Barbarian Encampment just to the south of our capital.

Spoiler :

T8: Both Inca and Egypt settle their second city pretty close to us. Paris-sur-le Nil grows to size 2.

Spoiler :

T9: Pottery finished and start researching Mining. Switched Paris-sur-le Nil to build a Shrine before finishing the Worker. Our Scout spots an ancient ruin immediately to the south of the Incan capital.

Spoiler :

T10: Our Scout becomes an Archer when it enters the ruin. Also, there is one hell of a good city location right here where the ruin is. The Inca really missed out on not sending their second Settler here.

Spoiler :

T11: Our Archer-Scout meets the city-state of Sidon south-east of the ruin. The Inca seem to have skipped scouting south of their capital because we're first to meet them. They have Whales so there must be a coast down there.

IBT(11-12): Pachacuti wants to buy an embassy in Paris-sur-le Nil. Gold is welcome so I said yes to that.

T13: Looks like I'm just as bad as Pachacuti when it comes to finding ancient ruins south of one's capital.

Spoiler :

IBT: Unknown civ founds the Sacred Path pantheon.

T14: The ruin south of our capital was just a map one, but going there also revealed that we have Mt Sinai right next-door. That's a +8 faith mountain, perhaps we can stand a chance in the religion game after all? That encampment has to go before it's a valid city location though.

Spoiler :

T17: Mining researched and we start on Animal Husbandry. Paris-sur-le Nil finishes construction on the Shrine and goes back to the Worker.

IBT(18-19): Unknown civ starts worshipping the Goddess of Protection pantheon. Why does this pantheon always go as one of the first chosen by the AI? It seems kinda worthless compared to other pantheons imo.

T19: Our Warrior and Archer join forces to take down the barb camp by Mt Sinai.

Spoiler :

T20: Paris-sur-le Nil grows to size 3.

And here ends my reign over the French Empire. An overview of the current state of things:

Spoiler :

Paris-sur-le Nil:

Spoiler :

The known world to the north:

Spoiler :

The known world to the south:

Spoiler :

Did we decide whether to go with 10 or 15 turns per set after the first one? And who's up next?