RSG4 NOW Emperor Spain

[Raliuven]

Sorry, just saw a PM from Toxic; he's away until July 18th (or thereabouts) so:

Roster
Raliuven
CKS (just played)
Toxicman007 (skip)
TheOverseer714 (Playing)
Cyc (on deck)

I know that Overseer is usually not available until the weekend, Cyc can you swap with Overseer and sneak in a set before the weekend? I will be out of town from Friday-Sunday, so if the game progresses and CKS wants a swap with me that would also be fine. Otherwise I can probably pick it up Sunday PM or Monday.

 

[Cyc]

Toxicman showed up just so we could have a 5 day stretch with no play? No thanks. I'll wait my turn.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Got the save, hopefully I can cough up my results by Sunday night.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Went out to eat and shop, never got the chance to finish, will try to get it tomorrow.

 

[Cyc]

Well, 2 weeks since my last post here. I'm gone. Please take my name off the Roster. Thanks for the fun while it lasted.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I have dropped the ball, sorry all, summer and RL have conspired against me. Will get the save up in a couple of hours.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Here is the turn-log:

Spoiler :

Pre-flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Get the save loaded.

Non-Combat
Settlers 1
Workers 8
Slaves 18

Military units:
Warriors 3
Archers 5
Spears 9
Swords 9
Maces 1
Horsemen 1
Ancient Cavalry 7
Catapults 12
Army 3, 3 Swords(1), 3 Ancient Cavalry(2)

B]Unit Support:[/B]
Total Units: 59
Allowed Units: 26
Support Cost: 66 gpt

Contacts-Target list
1: Greece=> !Eliminated!
2: Babylon=> War Republic, Strong to
3: China=>Peace Monarchy, Strong to
4: Maya=>War Republic, Strong to
5: Netherlands=>Peace Republic, Strong to
6: Arabia=>Peace Republic, Strong to
7: Hittites=>Peace Republic, Strong to

Capital Size 8, grows in 2 turns, Mace in 2 turns

Sliders5/4/1, Chivalry in 4 turns at +7 gpt, 49 gold in the bank.

Press Enter:

IBT: *eSpear survives vKnight attack, a second vKnight comes put of Babylon. More JT’s move in. Maya, Baylon, and Dutch begin Copes. Dutch Sistine also.

Turn 1, 460 AD: 2nd Cavalry loses 1 hp killing vKnight. Retreat wounded units. Move Sword to shadow Mayan Galley. Advance Cat stack to the gates of Eridu.

IBT: Hoplite moves in to pillage.
Madrid Mace=>Mace.
Seville Horseman=> Horseman.
Santiago Library=>Pikeman.
Murcia Mace=>Mace.
Zaragoza Horseman=> Horseman.

Turn 2, 470 AD: At Eridu, Cats go 2 of 9. GSA wins vs vPike, -4hp, wins vs 3hp vPike, -5hp. vMace wins vs 3hp vPike, -1hp, and Eridu is ours!
At Akkad, Cats go 4 of 6, vSword wins vs 1hp JT, -1hp. vArcher wins vs 2hp LB, -1hp. rWarrior loses to 2hp LB. 3rd Cavalry wins vs 1hp LB, -1hp.
Continued shadowing Mayan Galley. Found Jaen in old Greece.

IBT: Maya movement only, Babs quiet.
Barcelona Mace=>Mace.
Toledo Mace=>Pikeman.
Maya finish Sistine, Babs finish Copes.

Turn 3, 480 AD: At Akkad, Cats go 4 of 6, 3rd Cavalry wins vs 2hp JT clean, vSword wins vs 2hp JT clean, promotes. vArcher wins vs 2hp JT, -1hp. 3rd Cavalry wins vs 2hp Mace, -3hp. Lower tech slider for overrun.

IBT: Chivalry=>Invention in 8 turns at -13. SoZ AC=>AC.
Delphi Barracks=>Pikeman.

Turn 4, 490 AD:. Pillage Babs’ Horses. Move Cat stacks.

IBT: Madrid Mace=>Settler.
Valencia Barracks=> Mace.
Surprise! Eridu flips.
Salamanca Pikeman=>Library.

Turn 5, 500 AD: At Akkad, vMace wins vs eJT, -3hp. At Eridu, vSword wins vs rSpear, city is ours again, I raze for 3 slaves. Move stacks.

IBT: Mayan Musket shows up, and a Bab LB.

Turn 6, 510 AD: Near Akkad, vMace wins vs Bab rLB, -1hp.
At Babylon, Cats go 6p 6 of 8, revealing 4 Pikes. 2nd Cavalry wins vs 2hp rPike clean. 2nd Cavalry wins vs 2hp rPike, -1hp. vMace wins vs 2hp vPike, -1hp. eSword wins vs 1hp rPike clean, and Babylon, with the GLib, is ours! Shut down Tech spending. Disband rSpear at Salamanca.
Move troops beside Akkad.

IBT: Mayans want to pillage, another Musket shows up.
GLib gives us Theology, Invention, Astronomy, Chemistry, and Education.
That’s all for that wonder.
Sparta Trebuchet=>Trebuchet.

Turn 7, 520 AD: Begin Metallurgy. At Nineveh, Cats go 3 for 6.
vAC retreats from rSpear. vAC loses to same rSpear. Army time.
3rd Cavalry wins vs 2hp rSpear, -2hp. eSword wins vs 1hp rPike clean.
vMace wins vs 1hp rSpear, Nineveh is ours! Copes, 1 gold and a slave taken.

IBT: Ut-oh! Maya have Knights. Babylon and Sparta riot,
Seville Trebuchet=>Mace.
Toledo riots. Salamanca riots. Good ol’ WW has arrived.

Turn 8, 530 AD: Near Ninevah, cats go 3 for 6, eSword wins vs 1hp vKnight, and Great Leader Olivare is created! Send him back home, may be our first Knight or Cavalry Army.
Getting Gunpowder reveals 3 Saltpeter sources in reach, but unhooked.
Form embassy with Arabia for 44 gold. Trade them Invention for 65 gold.
I recommend an alliance vs the Maya, that could blunt their attacks, and we should not make peace with the Maya, seeing that China will be a fast takedown.

IBT: Mayan Knights kill our *eSword, retreat from Ninevah’s vMace. Another is wit the Sword-killer. Land a Warrior near Jaen. Bab rKnight shows near Babylon. SoZ AC=>AC.

Turn 9, 540 AD: GSA wins vs Bab rKnight. vHorse wins vs rWarrior, -2 hp, promotes. Take a risk, vSword wins vs 1hp rKnight, -2 hp.
Cats red-line Sword killer (2 hits). vMace wins vs 1hp eKnight, -2hp. Cats red-line following Knight(3 hits), 2nd Cavalry wins vs 1hp vKnight, -1hp.
Move north cat stack next to Ashur.

IBT: 2 more Mayan Knights arrive. At Ashur, LB dies on our vSpear, who promotes. Babylon deposes us.
Murcia Mace=>Library.

Turn 10, 550 AD: Fix incipient riot at Toledo. Otherwise, leave troops unmoved. Save here.

Non-Combat
Settlers 1
Workers 8
Slaves 22

Military units:
Warriors 1
Archers 4
Spears 5
Pikes 1
Swords 8
Maces 6
Horsemen 3
Ancient Cavalry 7
Catapults 12
Trebuchets 2
Army 4, 3 Swords(1), 3 Ancient Cavalry(2), 1 Empty.

B]Unit Support:[/B]
Total Units: 63
Allowed Units: 32
Support Cost: 62 gpt

Contacts-Target list
1: Greece=> !Eliminated!
2: Babylon=> War Republic, Strong to
3: China=>Peace Republic, Strong to
4: Maya=>War Republic, Strong to
5: Netherlands=>Peace Republic, Strong to
6: Arabia=>Peace Republic, Strong to
7: Hittites=>Peace Republic, Strong to

Capital Size 8, grows in 1 turn, Knight in 2 turns

Sliders5/4/1, Metallurgy in 13 turns at -9 gpt, 203 gold in the bank.

The save:

 

[CKS]

Babylon flipping is a pity, but expected, and they aren't long for this world.
The GL techs are handy, and it's nice to have gunpowder. It won't be too long before we have cavs.

An alliance vs Maya might be nice.

I don't understand the IBT after turn 4.

We need the save, please.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I don't understand the IBT after turn 4.

I probably forgot to erase the first sentence, I re-use my turn-logs by writing over my previous logs, some mistakes creep in. Save is up, I hope I got the right one.

 

[Raliuven]

Nice! I think that now puts me as up. I am finishing RSG3.5 so I am not sure I can get to this tonigth. If someone wants to swap with me that would work. Otherwise I might get to it tonight, otherwise tomorrow.

Roster
Raliuven (Playing?)
CKS (on deck)
Toxicman007 (waiting)
TheOverseer714 (just played)

 

[Raliuven]

Okay, posting a got it for this save.

 

[Raliuven]

Okay, sorry for the 3rd post in a row, but now that I've taken a look at the game I have a few questions for the group before we proceed.

First, with the techs from the GLB we can make Conquistadors. IIRC we have not had our GA yet. I could get that started in this turn set if we want by swaping a few knights to our UU.

Second, should I ally the Arabians against the Mayans or would this go against our NOW doctrine to pull in allies?

Third, we have not put up a FP yet but maybe there is no point wasting a GL on it - and not that we have a great choice of locations thus far.

Otherwise my goals are as follows for the next 10 turns:

Goals
Destroy Babylon.
DOW on China.
Destroy China.
Go on the offensive against the Mayans.

 

[CKS]

Conquistadors make great pillagers, and a GA would be nice. Let's build some. If we get the opportunity, a conquistador army is really nice - pillaging nine tiles per turn.

I'm good with allies in NOW games, but if anyone feels they violate the spirit of the game, I'll go along.

I suspect we'll get more benefit from an army than the FP in this game.

Your goals sound good.

 

[Raliuven]

Just a quick updates, I'm about 1/2 way through. Those wandering AI boats are really annoying.

Babys are dead. Babylon flipped a few more times but all it did was create a logistic problem and keep some units busy that could have been used elsewhere.

The Mayans bought in the Chinese and Dutch against us. The Arabians don't know either the Chinese or the Mayans so I allied them against the Dutch to keep them both busy until we can get around to them. Only problem is the Dutch seem to be completely ignoring the Arabians and they are coming after us - specifically targeting Barc.

We now have two more luxuries almost in our grasp - gems and wines and I hope to have them connected by the end of my set.

We have a conquistador army and our GA began in 600AD (Turn 175).

The current trick will be to blunt the Dutch advance - and this is probably their entire offensive all on one tile given their city dispersement and to keep the Mayans off us with their knight, which appear to consist of singles with an occasional burst of 2-3 knights appearing together. So far our AC armies have been chewing them up without any ROI for the Mayans.

I don't know that I'll be able to destroy China as planned given the world war. Only the Hittites are not involved at this point. I am investing a little in infrastructure but mostly unit builds.

 

[Raliuven]

Handoff notes:

There are two armies healing at Barc but the immediate Dutch land invasion has been destroyed and the Chinese invasion was also cleaned up for the most part. We will probably see a wave of 2-3 Mayan knights next turn (or two). That seems to be the pattern.

We have a group of Mayan/Dutch ships to our Northeast. I have the GSA and some units trying to shadow them.

There is a new Dutch Caravel to the west of our capital and there are two knights in the area.

The Dutch landed down by Athens and seized two undefended cities before I could reach them. Sorry about that. Just too many ships all over the place and not enough units yet to cover them. We now have units in the area, killed the knight and reclaimed one city, but a SW is holding Athens.

We are 5 turns into our GA (began in 600AD). Military Tradition in 7 turns. Gems are connected by not grapes. There are some settlers on the way up north. There is one settler in the south waiting for that piece of swampland to be cleared.

The Chinese salt and iron were pillaged a few turns ago along with some other costly improvements. As far as I can tell, the Dutch and Arabians haven't done anything to each other.

Log

Spoiler :

Turn 170 (550AD)

Looks like we are in a good position.

Battle for Babylon: 5/5 sword vs unfortunately newly spawned 3/3 spear - win, -3hp. Capture city. 5 Resisters (of 5). Set to a worker.

Move settler into place to the southeast of Babylon.

Need to get rid of the muskets so 12/13 GSA vs 4/4 musket - win, -7hp. 5/13 GSA vs 3/3 musket - win, -4hp. GSA is now 1/13.

Vs Ashur cats go 2/9. Not good at all. Reveals at least 3 pikes.

Cats go 1/3 vs Mayan knights. 13/16 AC vs 3/4 knight - win, -1hp. 12/16 AC vs 4/4 knight - win, -6hp. Pull all units in the area back into the stack to heal.

Battle for Ashur - 16/16 AC vs 3/3 pike - win, -6hp. 10/16 AC vs 3/3 pike - win, -3hp. 4/4 MDI vs 3/4 pike - lose, -2hp. 4/4 horse vs 3/4 pike - flawless retreat. Decide to stay up for this turn until cats can do more damage to remaining 2 pikes or AC army heals.

Swap some knights to Conquistadors for a Conquistador army.

Go to Arabia to ally them against the Mayans and . . . they don't know the Mayans. How is that even possible?

IBT - The Chinese send out a settler. Bet they've been waiting a long time to do that. The Dutch send a ship our way. The Mayan galley is still cruising around.


Turn 171 (560AD)

Found Logrono. Start a settler. Swap some Treb builds to settlers.

Units in the west (by the Mayan) rest and heal.

2nd Battle for Ashur - cats go 3/9 and reveal 3 pikes. Damn. 7/16 AC vs 2/4 pike - flawless win. 7/16 AC vs 2/4 pike - win, -3hp. 4/4 sword vs 2/3 pike - flawless loss. 4/4 sword vs 2/3 pike - win, -2hp. Options are not the greatest. I capture the city for now. 5 Resisters (of 7). Starve the city. Put units in the city to attempt to quell the population while it starves but no unit will remain there. Need to finish off the Babs once and for all.

IBT - For some reason the Babylonians send out a settler covered by a pike and a lone pike. They must not have noticed all the Spanish troops in the area?

The Mayans want to talk now that we've destroyed their entire invasion force and a few hundred shields worth of units. The good news? They are saving some unit maintenance costs. I decline. I don't want to talk to those losers.

Mayan ship continues around our southern seas. A Mayan knight appears by Ninevah.
The Dutch are building Magellan's Voyage.

Turn 172 (570AD)

Madrid: Conquistador=>Knight
Quell 3 resisters in Ashur but the city riots.

Bombard one wayward pike, cats go 2/4. 5/5 AC finishes him off, -1hp.

Cats go 1/6 vs Mayan Knight. 12/16 AC vs 3/4 knight - win, -5hp.

Everyone else rests.

IBT - The Dutch demand our dyes. Here we go. The Dutch are average to us but their lands are scattered. They have knights. Okay, let's dance, William. Actually, it is William that dances - away from us as fast as possible.


Turn 173 (580AD)

Pharsalos: Settler=>Settler
Argos: Settler=>Barracks
Santiago: Conquistador=>Knight

Battle for Samarra: cats go 2/4 and single pike is readlined. 5/5 AC vs 1/3 pike - flawless loss. 4/5 AC vs 2/4 pike - flawless retreat. Whatever.


Cats then go 1/4 vs exposed pike.

Create conquistador army. Load 2 conquistadors.

IBT - The Mayans buy the Dutch in against us.
Babylon deposes us again.
Mayan galley moves up our coast. Mayan knight and a musket/settler pair appear.
China establishes and embassy with us.

Turn 174 (590AD)

Madrid: AC
Barcelona: Conquistador=>Knight
Delphi: Pike=>Knight

At Samarra our cats go 3/4. 9/16 AC vs 1/4 pike - win, -1hp. Capture city, sink galley. Babs are down to 2 cities (counting flipped babylon).

12/13 GSA vs 3/3 spear - win, -1hp. Capture city.

Cats hit healing pike 1/1. Now pike is 1/3. 5/5 sword vs 1/3 pike - flawless win, 2 slaves.

Cats hit Mayan knight 3/4 and drop it to 1/4. Cats miss musket 0/2. 12/16 AC vs 1/4 knight flawless win. Load the final Conquistador in our army. Conquistador army moves to support final attack on Babylon.

We've got a problem with this dumb ships circling us. I send the new AC south even though I want him north.

Arabia does know the Dutch so I ally them against the Dutch. Give them Theo for 8gp to make the deal. That should keep the Dutch busy.



IBT - the babs want to talk. Nah. We're good.
Dutch ships can really cruise, they are now to both the north and south.
Maya signs the Chinese into the war against us. It is a world war now.

We get a palace enhancement - build steps, add a building and 2nd floor.



Turn 175 (600AD)

Battle for Ellipi - 12/12 Conquistador vs 3/3 pike - flawless victory and GA. 12/12 Conquistador vs 3/3 spear - win, -1hp. Capture city and 2 slaves.

Babylon is destroyed which will free up a lot of our resources. China has already DOW on us so we don't need to worry about that part.

Cat misses Chinese settler/spear/archer stack.
Cats redline Mayan musket. 4/4 MDI vs 1/4 musket - win, -2hp. 2 slaves.

Settle Valladolid in an open place to close some gaps. Start a worker.

Put everyone back to work. Metal in 3t.

Armies remain in place to heal this turn.

IBT - China loses a 4/4 sword to a 4/4 spear, -2hp.
Ships continue to sail around.
Mayans advance a knight because they love to waste units.
Netherlands advance a MDI & Swiss Merc.


Turn 176 (610AD)

Madrid: Knight=>Knight
Athens: Settler=>Settler
Knossos: Settler=>Barracks
Santander: Treb=>Treb

We get a palace expansion, add east wing.
Armies are healed and most resisters are nice people now.

Cats redline invading Chinese. 15/16 AC vs 1/3 spear - win, -3hp. 5/5 sword vs 1/4 archer - win, -1hp, 2 slaves.

Cats go 2/7 against Mayan knight but now 2/4 on a mountain. I'll let him retreat.

Our Conquistador Army invades China to disconnect their salts.

IBT - a 2/4 Mayan knight kills a 4/4 spear (-1hp) and reclaims 2 slaves.
Dutch & Mayan boats continue to sail around.
Large Dutch stack of SM, MDI and a knight moving on Barc.

Turn 177 (620AD)

Salamanca: Library=>Market
Zaragoza: Knight=>Knight

Conquistador army pillages Chinese salts, iron, plains (x2), hills before coming up behind the Mayan knights.

Cats do a great job redlining all Mayan knights n the area! 5/5 sword vs 1/4 knight - win, -2hp. 12/13 Conquistador vs 1/4 knight - win, -1hp, recapture lost slaves. 16/16 AC vs 1/4 knight - flawless win. See two Mayan muskets escorting a settler.

Move units around Barc so that only approach is via flat land. GSA and an AC move into the area along with a few trebs.

Science down to 40%, Metal still in 1t @ +74gpt.

IBT - Lose a spear to a Dutch knight, -2hp. Lose a pike flawlessly to an attacking MDI. An MDI holds off a Dutch knight and a Chinese MDI.
Dutch land a knight and SM in our soft underbelly from one of those damn ships. I don't know that we can repulse the attack with any local forces. Spread too thin.
Another Mayan knight appears along with the muskets/settler.
The Chinese are advancing some units, but they can't have much to send with only three cities.


Turn 178 (630AD)

Metal=>MT in 8t (70% science) -10gpt.
Zues is obsolete.

The Dutch are going to take either one or two cities next turn and I can't stop them. Gather units to try to repulse them.

Build Gem City.

Trebs redline SM by Barc. 12/16 AC vs 4/4 MDI - win, -5hp. 7/16 AC vs 1/3 SM. Flawless win.

Cats redline Chinese spear - 16/16AC vs 1/4 spear - win, -1hp. Cats redline Mayan Knight. Don't have the units to take him down just yet.

Send Conquistador Army to kill a 2/4 Dutch knight, -6hp. Grr. GSA is sent to deal with eastern fleet of ships that is gathering just in case they land. Send lots of units to deal with landing Dutch forces.

Hurry a MDI at Corinth for 44gp.

IBT - This is going to suck. Dutch knight captures Athens. Dutch knight flawlessly kills 4/4 archer in Jaen and captures the city.
Dutch stack moves against Barc.
New Dutch Caravel is moving along our northern coast.

Turn 179 (640AD)

Madrid: Knight=>Knight
Corinth riots. Make a clown. It is now cut off.
Seville: Knight=>Knight
Akkad: Temple=>Walls
Pamplona: Settler=>Courthouse

Battle for Jaen: 4/4 knight vs 4/4 knight - win, -1hp. Capture city and sink a caravel that pulled into port.
Advance many units on Athens. GSA continues to shadow the fleet in the (now) Northeast.

Cats by Barc take 2hp off each SM. 7/16AC vs 2/4 SM - win, -2hp. 5/16 AC vs 2/4 SM - win, -2hp. 4/4 knight vs 4/4 MDI - win, -1hp. One MDI left. 5/13 Conquistador vs 3/3 MDI - win, -2hp. Invading Dutch stack is dead. Armies need to heal, move all into Barc (barracks) to heal.

Move newly created knights to shadow the new Dutch caravel until the Athens situation can be resolved.

Cats redline a Chinese sword and reduce another to 2/4. 15/16 AC vs 1/4 sword - win, -1hp, capture 2 slaves. 4/4 MDI vs 2/4 sword - win, -2hp.

Cats take a point off 2 Mayan muskets escorting a settler. 14/16 AC vs 2/3 Musket - win, -1hp.

 

[CKS]

I've got it.

 

[CKS]

I've played 5 turns so far. I got an MGL, which I turned into an army, waiting to be filled with cavalry, and I got an SGL when we learned military tradition. What do we want to do with the SGL? We have three reasonable possibilities in the short term: build the pentagon, build the military academy, learn music theory and build Bach's. I'm inclined to detour to music theory because Bach's will help with war weariness, and we should be able to get MGLs for the others more easily.

Turn log so far:

Spoiler :

Turn 0:
Upgrade E* archer to longbow.
IBT: Nothing much.

Turn 1:
5/5 sword kills lone Dutch longbow. Cat bombs 2/3 Mayan musket to 1/3, 5/5 sword kills it. 5/5 MDI kills Chinese archer, we get a leader. Send it to Barcelona and make an army, to be filled with cavalry in a few turns. MDI kills Mayan settler. Cats go 2/6 vs Chinese. Knight goes 2/4 killing Chinese spear. MDI redlines killing Chinese sword. Build Cordoba on spices, revealing Dutch settler pair. AC goes to cover. AC redlines killing SM at Athens. Vet sword dies redlining spear, which promotes. 5/5 horse kills spear to retake Athens. Advance towards Beijing.
IBT: Settler pair advances, Dutch land a SM near Babylon, Dutch and Mayans advance north of Ninevah.

Turn 2:
AC dies redlining MDI of settler pair. Move sword army to cover. MDI redlines killing Mayan knight. Bomb a musket. Advance on Beijing.
IBT: Mayan knight kills sword, takes some cats. Lots of Mayan knights show up.

Turn 3:
Sword army kills MDI and gets the settler, goes 9/13 killing SM. Conq. army kills Mayan knight, retakes cats. Cats bomb second knight. Knight kills it, redlines but promotes to 2/5. MDI kills pike, AC armies kill 2 archers near Beijing. Move to prevent Mayan knights from using unowned roads to kill our workers.
IBT: Mayan knights kill 2 of our knights.

Turn 4:
Conq. army kills knight, pillages around Bonampak. Cats hit twice at Beijing. AC armies kill 3 pikes, a spear, and an archer, taking the city. Build Almeria as the swamp is finally cleared.
IBT: Sword dies redlining 2 Mayan knights. Chinese horse suicides at Beijing.

Turn 5:
4/5 sword kills redlined Mayan knight. Conq army kills longbow, pillages. Knight kills Mayan knight.
IBT: Learn Military Tradition, get an SGL.

Stop to consult.

 

[Toxicman007]

I think we should use the SGL for a wonder, Bach's sounds good. The others can just be hurried by MGLs that will surely appear very soon.

 

[CKS]

We are also two techs from ToG, so I suppose we could build Newton's University. I don't see us researching very far, though. We could stop now and cash rush cav armies (after building the Military Academy), we could go on to steam power, or we could go to replaceable parts.

What I think we should do: Learn Music Theory and rush Bach's. This will take 4 turns. Then shut off research, set our farms to cash, and tromp on everyone with cav armies. Railroads would be nice, but cav armies are pretty speedy anyway. Madrid can build the MA in less than 20 turns if we don't get a MGL soon.

Are we going for conquest or domination?

I'd really like some feedback before I pick a path to send us down, so I'll wait another day before I finish.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Bach's sounds like the best use for an SGL, agree to shut off science and pound our enemies into the ground. As for the VC, no proper NOW game can end until there is no one left to kill, so Conquest all the way!