Rule Britannia!

[Marcvs Avrelivs]

I'm not a good Civ 5 player and I willingly admit it Still, I'm willing to learn and so I plan on starting a thread (even a series, if this proves to be successful) to help me and other struggling players progress.

I normally play on Prince and I am quite confident of winning there so I believe it's time to step up... to King. The first time I played I ended up getting rushed and being technologically backwards... I tried again, and the same thing happened: rushed and outteched.

Here is where you guys come in It would be appreciable if you Civ 5 vets can help my struggles before I give up and return to my beloved Civ 4

I would play small turnsets, probably about 20 in duration, but if things are slow/boring, I may decide to go for longer turnsets.

Anyway, map setting is shuffle (that way, we'd be inclined to not adopt a single strategy but rather, adapt to the environment) with a random leader. Everything else is standard, but with ruins turned off and quick combat activated.

So, enough of the useless chatter... Who are we playing as?

Hm, RNG gave us Elizabeth, Queen Gloriana....

Begin the fanfare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd8ihEQ3tVI

(Yes, I know the song wouldn't have been composed in Elizabeth's time... and nor was England a world empire by then... But hey, this is Civ and we can change history... right? )

Alright, so the Virgin Queen's UA is Sun Never Sets. We get +2 movement for all our naval units (including embarked units) which means we will really rule the waves... assuming that this is a continent/archipelago map, of course. Now, I'm not really sure how the shuffle algorithm works, but I think that means we have 2/3 chances of rolling a water (that means continents or archipelago) map. Now let's hope that the RNG is nice to us

Lizzy's UUs are the Longbowmen and the Ship of the Line. Longbowmen are crossbowmen with +1 range. That's a 3 range unit right off the bat This means that they can pound cities without being in range... These guys seem frightening and were the scourges against the French at Agincourt and Crecy... but will their reputation be as good as it historically was? We'll be finding that out....

The Ship of the Line is a beefed-up variant of the Frigate with 35 ranged attack, instead of 28. With Lizzy's UA, they move at 7... None can outrun them, so we should utilise them to full power. That means pounding some coastal cities to dust and taking them with privateers or even caravels...

(I did promise that we'll be adapting depending on the map, but come on, Lizzy cries out for continental domination )

Alright, with the leader covered, let's check the start...

Umm... It seems that we start on a peninsula with a cow and 2 gems...and plenty of coasts too, apparently. The coasts I regard as a mixed blessing. On one hand, we're England: we're meant to thrive here. On the other hand, I don't think that these tiles are of much value, due to my Civ4 exposure. Still, if there's something I'm missing, I'd like it if you guys can point it out to me Gems mean commerce and cow means... well, I don't think cow starts are as powerful as they were in Civs 3 and 4... We have forests to the north and jungles to the west. Grassland seems to sprawl to the northeast and we most likely have coast to the south, east and west. That means we most likely will be expanding north... or, in Britain's case, across the seven seas.

Now, before I proceed, I'd like to see what you guys think would be an excellent opening move. It is true that the warrior should move first, but where? To the gems hill northeast of the settler to get a good view? Would you recommend settling in place? If not, how long do you usually wait to settle your capital?

Yes, I know, all noob questions, but yeah, someone has to ask

Attached is a save. I wouldn't mind if you guys shadow and post, but please keep it in spoiler tags and just show the date so that I know if I should open it or not

Thanks once more

 

[budweiser]

I think you want to move your warrior on top of the forest hill gem to the NE, then report back to the group.

 

[Volapyk]

The real question is do you settle on the east or the west coast, you seem to be missing a ressource, which is most likely placed in the 3rd ring of your settlers starting position, so finding it is crucial.

Do as budweiser suggested, move warrior to the hill and then report back

 

[kamex]

I'd settle in place for instant access to the cow. I'd play England tall until (maybe two cities or even just one) until your SOTL and Privateers become available then go conquering. So fast growth is important. research mining first and build a worker ASAP to get and sell the Gems. You'll want a few land units though to secure your coastal captures from enemy land units.

 

[Volapyk]

Why settle with only 1-2 cities if going tall? I presume tall means a tradition start, why not take advantage of the bonuses and get 4 cities up? Of course it will depend on the land, there might not even be room for 4 cities, could be a very small island he is on, but if there is room going for 4 cities and tradition for the 'base' of his empire seems sound.

SotL come later than Longbowmen, so if there is an AI nearby, taking him out with a mix of Longbowmen and some of those boats that upg to SotL (Galleas?) for some extra exp there might be a sound strategy.

 

[Crafty Bison]

looks like a passable start, river would have been nice but you almost never get it perfect . As bud says, move the warrior NE (or possibly SW, but I suspect we're on a peninsula not an isthmus). This will help us decide where to place the captial city. Once we're up, scouts are a v good idea with england, just because they always are, but especially because England can really use a scout archer well when it upgrades to a longbowman, so 1 or 2 scouts increase the chance that you get one. The start looks like you have some open tiles, so horses could very well be at your start location, especially as you seem a little resource light atm, i.e. animal husbandary may well be useful. However, the start suggests minig early and england should get sailing/optics quickly, and archery as well, on top of the obvious writing, so there's not really a hard and fast tech path for you.

 

[kamex]

Why settle with only 1-2 cities if going tall? I presume tall means a tradition start, why not take advantage of the bonuses and get 4 cities up? Of course it will depend on the land, there might not even be room for 4 cities, could be a very small island he is on, but if there is room going for 4 cities and tradition for the 'base' of his empire seems sound.

I find settling all four sometime results in happiness problems id there are only a couple of unique luxuries. Two, or even one should give you enough science and faster polices. - You'll want left of Commerce ASAP.

SotL come later than Longbowmen, so if there is an AI nearby, taking him out with a mix of Longbowmen and some of those boats that upg to SotL (Galleas?) for some extra exp there might be a sound strategy.

Fair point.

 

[neilkaz]

This should be a fun learning experience for non-experts. Anyhow, I think you're on a penisula and should first move the warrior NE to take a look just in case it's worth a couple of turns to settle in a clearly better spot. However, I suspect you'll settle in place.

Possibly you're on a island or even small island and won't need a scout, but most likely you're on a penisula and will want to quickly scout northward. I have no experience playing with ruins off, but with them on I'd certainly make a scout first since I want to maximize my chances to hit useful ruins, but even with ruins off, a scout can help you meet city states first and will also more quickly uncover the map and meet AI's to help you plan your early game and trades.

If going Tradition, I want to get up to 4 cities quickly as long a happiness can handle it. I want those free monuments quickly and the free aquaducts will help me grow.

As far Commerce, opinions divide on whether one should enhance England's allready awesome naval abilities and you can make that decision later as perhaps you're just at the bottom of a big continent and this game will be most land based, which is fine once you get longbowmen. In preparation for longbowmen, any units I'd make to help take out barbs or to keep and early AI at bay would be archers.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[Raio]

Hi

I also admit I am not a great Civ player (even if I olay since Civ 1...).

But here is my tip: the main secret to advance for higher levels is do not overexpand!
Just give a try to this strategy: do not build more than 4 cities until you finish all liberty and tradition social policies!

 

[Marcvs Avrelivs]

Thanks for the replies and comments on initial placement, guys! I think we can all agree on moving the warrior 1 NE and see what we can see....

Elizabeth surveyed the realm around her atop a chestnut steed. God has seen her fit to lead a party of settlers and a company of warriors and turn this band of rabble into the greatest empire the world has ever known, civilising all the fools who surround her. But first, she would have to found her capital.

Yes.... Found her capital, wherever that may be. Nevertheless, feelings in her wandering tribe of nomads are rife with anger that she, a female, is proclaimed the Queen. Elizabeth would have to subjugate these rebels that threaten the heart of yet-unknown-of England before she can turn the surrounding barbarians into actual, civilised humans.

The following day, she proceeded to deliver a speech.

"Friends, Englishmen, traitorous rebels, lend me yours ears! (That applies to you rebels literally.) We have been persuaded by some to take heed how we commit ourselves to nomadic travel and rebellious squabblings, yet I assure you that I do not wish us to be a divided people! I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart of a king, and a heart of a king of England too!"

Old Man James interrupts: What's an England?

Liz: Silly old fool! England is the country, or rather, future world superpower, we belong to, as soon as we get our borders established! And we can't do that with you cretins squabbling among yourselves! We are too tired to go on, so we will cut to the point. If anyone dares argue with the Queen, I assure you that the offending party will be hung drawn and quartered, charged with treason, on the very same day.

Young Man James: Excuse me, Queen, but what if it's night?

Liz: SILENCE!!! Guards, take him to the Tower!

Guardsman 1: What tower?

Liz (aside): Hm, that's right. Our capital still isn't in place so there's no Tower to throw criminals into... (to the guards) Never mind that, tie his hands and neck behind my horse. We must find a suitable spot for our capital before we can throw him in the tower. Sir Robert Dudley, I appoint you as Master of the Horse, but we have no horses yet (whatever those things may be) so instead, you will be commanding that company of barbarian warriors to go on top of the nearest hill and report on what you see.

Robert and his band of plucky warriors move along

Nothing short of more forests, grassland and a hill.... I expected a bit more.... So, what do you guys think? I think SIP would be decent, but yeah, it's hard to think of anywhere else to go since there's no real incentive for moving...

 

[budweiser]

I would settle in place, start a worker and research mining, archery, AH.

 

[Tabarnak]

My thoughts : Settle in place. Pottery, Mining, sailing, optics. Start with worker. When pottery is done, start a shrine and finish it. Finish the worker. then build 2 trireme and 2 scouts. Explore widely and catch ruins.

 

[Moriarte]

Lovely story

I would settle in place too, this looks like large islands or archipelago. If that is the case, you will want your capital coastal so that you can produce galleases. The lake is fine too, might help you with the great scientist (+oxford) revealing navigation.

I would start with researching Mining, Pottery and Sailing to be able to mine Diamonds and explore the world with a trireme.

Again, if this is watery i would go liberty for a free settler and a worker.

In terms of production: Worker, (Scout?), Monument, Shrine, Trireme.

 

[Marcvs Avrelivs]

Yes, I would say SIP is in good order.

Combining your ideas with mine, I'll suggest that for tech, I have Mining>AH>Pottery>Sailing in mind and, coupled with the possible build order of Worker>Monument>Warrior>Trireme, we'd be set for the next few turns.

Reasoning:

Mining>AH should give the worker enough to do, mining the gems first then working the cow. Pottery would lead us into the Sailing>Optics path which we want to pursue early on: I have my eyes on the Great Lighthouse and if this just happens to be a water map, then we'd turn our potentially powerful navy into a bigger monster

I also plan on pursuing the lib tree early on, including the free settler: if we'd be settling a tall empire consisting of minimal cities, then the free settler could mean that we don't have to build one in the capital, thus saving time for the Great Lighthouse. As well, we can take a Great Engineer from the Lib finisher, perhaps rushing Hagia Sophia from Theology, which happens to be in the area of the tech tree we are focusing on, namely the top bit. The GP from Hagia would then solve the religion issue.

As for the no-shrine build, well, we're coastal and I don't think a pantheon would be necessary.

Thoughts? Comments on my noobishness?

Thanks once more guys

EDIT: That aside, I think the worker won't have enough to do. In my Civ4 experience, I've learnt that wasting worker turns is generally a bad idea: in Civ5, does that thinking still apply?

 

[Crafty Bison]

Well that was a whole load of nothing! Settle in place. I think there's either a resource SW, or you'll have horses, or maybe iron, or something at least!

You don't have wheat/deer so granary is not so neccessary early as in other starts. Unless you want to go religion heavy I wouldn't worry about pottery for a tech or 2 (even though I'd then get sailing and/or writing right after). As you're england and your empire might look kinda funky I don't think religion would work as well as with other civs. The start is forest and mines which screams mining, though you don't need it till you have a worker. There's also a cow and a decent chance of horses, so animal husbandry couldbe a shout too.

SP's - Most people say tradition, I'd actually shout for Liberty. You'll be doing most of your 'growing' through war, hopefully on the sea, so what you really need is a quick start (honour is more for land wars, but could still be passable as a second policy), not long term tall growth. On getting optics, you also have an advantage on worker and settler movement.
You have trees for the worker to chop early and resources with early techs (even if 1 has a jungle on it) so the liberty worker would be good. Also the extra hammer is good for warmongers, and very good for coastal cities, which usually lack hammers.

For Wonders, it doesn't matter on this level, but top levels I wouldn't build the GLight. I'd scout to find who builds it and take it from them. Same with SoZ. At this level it's fine to build tho. I wouldn't care enough about religion to take HS with liberty GE. If GLight is still about that'd be fine, but I'd possibly save it for something like LToP.

edit: Don't worry, the worker will have enough to do. Especially if you take liberty and expand a bit. Also saw build order. Would defs start scout (once built, I'd quickly send south to make sure it's a peninsula and see if there's another lux that could affect tech order), and would try to do archer instead of warrior, if you have the tech for it. Good for defending early rushes, clearing barbs, and upgrades to longbow, the exp now would be awesome. Also the upgrade to composite bows is very strong compared to resource dependant swords.

 

[Tabarnak]

Staying with 1 city with Tradition can neat you Navigation pretty fast. Use Oxford to reach Navigation then immediately(prepare this some turns before and reach that iron) settle a 2nd city on a 6 iron tile if you can't get some from a cs or an AI.

I think OCC is also pretty good here knowing that it's Prince level and isolated. Build 6 galleass and upgrade everything. If you are lucky you can even win in the BCs.

 

[Marcvs Avrelivs]

Staying with 1 city with Tradition can neat you Navigation pretty fast. Use Oxford to reach Navigation then immediately(prepare this some turns before and reach that iron) settle a 2nd city on a 6 iron tile if you can't get some from a cs or an AI.

I think OCC is also pretty good here knowing that it's Prince level and isolated. Build 6 galleass and upgrade everything. If you are lucky you can even win in the BCs.

It's King

 

[Crafty Bison]

Staying with 1 city with Tradition can neat you Navigation pretty fast. Use Oxford to reach Navigation then immediately(prepare this some turns before and reach that iron) settle a 2nd city on a 6 iron tile if you can't get some from a cs or an AI.

I think OCC is also pretty good here knowing that it's Prince level and isolated. Build 6 galleass and upgrade everything. If you are lucky you can even win in the BCs.

Would respectfully disagree, i suppose OP will make up their own mind .

OCC will get you navigation a bit quicker (thorugh Oxford), Liberty will get your army going quicker, and get logistics on your ships/longbows earlier, which is really what SotL's are for. It's a warring civ, and veteran UU's are awesome. I'd advocate the quick start of liberty, which works well with England's UA of quick settler/worker movement along the coast, finding the best spots even if they're distant, and having the army mobility to defend them. Wide has more hammers for armies than tall, and England doesn't need any wonders it can't take from others. (except Oxford )

That's my opinion, I'm sure the OP will do whatever they want.

 

[Moriarte]

Would respectfully disagree, i suppose OP will make up their own mind .

OCC will get you navigation a bit quicker (thorugh Oxford), Liberty will get your army going quicker, and get logistics on your ships/longbows earlier, which is really what SotL's are for. It's a warring civ, and veteran UU's are awesome. I'd advocate the quick start of liberty, which works well with England's UA of quick settler/worker movement along the coast, finding the best spots even if they're distant, and having the army mobility to defend them. Wide has more hammers for armies than tall, and England doesn't need any wonders it can't take from others. (except Oxford )

That's my opinion, I'm sure the OP will do whatever they want.

Do you really need logistics for Ships of the Line? Well, maybe for amusement . 4 of them and a caravel will rip apart any city on King even without Admiral, provided you start warring early. I think its a safe bet to even capture first cap. with galleons on that level.

OCC is harder imo, but if you manage a city size of 15+ pretty early you can produce these galleons very quickly.

 

[budweiser]

Yes, England is a pure war machine. Tradtion and Honor first, then Liberty later as you add cities. But first, you must secure iron and your own lands, then you can open the commerce tree and dominate the seas. The Great Lighthouse is not needed. it comes too soon and would lay dormant too long for the hammer and research investment.