In my current Fall from Heaven game I have still almost 350 turns left (if I remember correctly in epic speed) and I have already all technologies from the technology tree and couple of future techs. Wouldn't it be better that there would be something to research until the end of the game (or at least almost) ? I think that perhaps research prices of some technologies should be increased or more technologies should be added to the technology tree. Or is it very exceptional to have all technologies already at this stage of the game ? Anyway this is only my second (and first that I have played this far) game of this mod, so I would not expect that I would have been able to research technologies at exceptionally fast rate.
Run out of technologies to research
- Thread starter vsipinen
- Start date
Senethro
Overlord
Run out of technologies to research? Time to kill everyone.
Because this mod is very new to me, I selected some of the lower difficulties - warlord if I remember correctly. So probably the low difficulty is the main reason for the phenomenon. However I was surprised as I have not noticed this kind of thing before, when I have played unmodded game - or other mods - with warlord difficulty (I don't even think that I am good enough to play the game above Prince or even Noble in case of BTS - I might survive, but probably not win).
JonathanStrange
PrinceWithA1000Enemies
You've done, imo, exceptionally well and probably could give advice on FFH2. I've not run out of technologies to research and I've played the game for years using various strategies and forum guides. However...
I play at the Deity level, normal speed and I don't recall the any level other than Immortal, so I can't judge how easy/hard it was to research everything, but this is the first time I've ever heard of anyone accomplishing this, at any level. It's not been a goal of mine though, I usually go for one of the usual suspects like Domination win or Cultural victory long before that.
I'd hate for research costs to be increased unless there were multiple reports again and again that people were researching everything - 'cause that just goes against the years of FFH2 games that have been collectively played.
Anyone else completing all the research? At what level, settings, game length, speed? Just curious. If someone's using an Advanced start, or WorldBuilder resources or whatever, then that would make a difference.
I play at the Deity level, normal speed and I don't recall the any level other than Immortal, so I can't judge how easy/hard it was to research everything, but this is the first time I've ever heard of anyone accomplishing this, at any level. It's not been a goal of mine though, I usually go for one of the usual suspects like Domination win or Cultural victory long before that.
I'd hate for research costs to be increased unless there were multiple reports again and again that people were researching everything - 'cause that just goes against the years of FFH2 games that have been collectively played.
Anyone else completing all the research? At what level, settings, game length, speed? Just curious. If someone's using an Advanced start, or WorldBuilder resources or whatever, then that would make a difference.
I suppose that I have been very lucky in this game. For example the starting position was quite nice: I had very much space to expand without need to compete with the other civilizations - and probably because the quite low difficulty not even the barbarians bothered me much. However the terrain did not provide much food.
Other point that probably affected was that my civilization and state religion (Khazad & Runes of Kilmorph) seemed to give me quite a lot of gold relatively easily, which perhaps allowed me to research exceptionally fast.
That and also I can't get to some of the latest techs because the game is technically over befor them - like 4 towers and enough gold to slave-rush ToM in a single turn, or attack on a strongest enemy is just a routine mop-up.
I've been always amazed hearing people say Eurabatres this or Drifa that and discussing how good/bad Auric is. How the heck did they last that long? I mean I'm a type of a player who doesn't do early rushes because that can take out a civ out of the picture for good. I play defensive mostly (I mean I don't DoW and invade others not that I hole up behind city walls), sometimes even gift techs to weaker civs and other stuff that would allow other civs to grow stronger to be a challenge in late game. However it all starts going downhill after my military city spits out 20 stigmata champions. Give them support of few ritualists and body/entropy/shadow/air mages and the urge to farm xp from your long time enemies is impossible to resist. And if I reach malevolent designs, upgrade my high level ritualists to eidolons and train BoA's for march and commando then steamrolling the world is just a routine. So how do people manage to get their immortals and even find them useful/important?
Oh, I play on huge marathon maps with flexible difficulty which ends up at deity (or immortal if I do a little modification).
just out of curiosity... what types of maps do you play on Xalien? Multiple continents? Tried it on the Plains map?
Also you might try jsut starting on Deity or immortal if the game is that easy for you. It makes the start slower for you and faster for the AI.
Personally I Save Scum quite often (and play on Noble) so I will not be caught ever saying the game is to easy, as I tend to not play Hardcore.
Also you might try jsut starting on Deity or immortal if the game is that easy for you. It makes the start slower for you and faster for the AI.
Personally I Save Scum quite often (and play on Noble) so I will not be caught ever saying the game is to easy, as I tend to not play Hardcore.
Tectonic maps with 30% water are my preferred ones. I prefer a litle peace early on hence the flexible diff, maybe I should try increasing one instead that doesn't go down at any point. And I kinda have issues with deity that turns the game into a neverending war. I guess I could describe my situation by a famous Chinese saying that begins "be careful what you wish for".
JonathanStrange
PrinceWithA1000Enemies
My FFH2 experience is mostly on Deity level, large+ pangaea maps, normal speed,with raging barbarians from day one and enemy civs on the march with tons of troops in the time it would take me to march to their lands, let alone bring anyone with me. That's why it's always hard to judge others' experiences; the settings...
Anyhow, if I weren't challenged, I'd just go to the next level 'til I was, before I'd even consider suggesting kicking research costs up a notch. And Deity is tough now...
Anyhow, if I weren't challenged, I'd just go to the next level 'til I was, before I'd even consider suggesting kicking research costs up a notch. And Deity is tough now...
Fafnir13
King
I suppose you can switch over to wealth, research, or units when that comes up. There used to be a bunch more buildings right at the end, but they got axed for various reasons.
whats ur strat for starting off diety? I usually get stuck huddling behind the city walls of the 1-3 cities I manage to build, and winning the game becomes impossible within maybe 100 turns, whenever they get cats and assasins.
When playing flexible difficulty, diety almost seems too easy by the time I get to it. Im not sure if its something subliminal which makes me use more benificial strats at earlier levels or what.
So, whats a good strat for you? I tried rushing archery and Dowing neighbors early, but I never got ANY commerce enhancements.
I tried going straight for tech but of course died very quickly. Is the trick just to play a turtle civ like the ljos? You think maybe the different difficulties have different subtle ratings for each civ (or at least strategy niche)
Edit: sometimes that late in game the biggest problem is just plain running out of money. At least on immortal/diety, but the problem only seems to exist if you started out on a hard difficulty, maybe inflation is influenced by more than just time?
When playing flexible difficulty, diety almost seems too easy by the time I get to it. Im not sure if its something subliminal which makes me use more benificial strats at earlier levels or what.
So, whats a good strat for you? I tried rushing archery and Dowing neighbors early, but I never got ANY commerce enhancements.
I tried going straight for tech but of course died very quickly. Is the trick just to play a turtle civ like the ljos? You think maybe the different difficulties have different subtle ratings for each civ (or at least strategy niche)
Edit: sometimes that late in game the biggest problem is just plain running out of money. At least on immortal/diety, but the problem only seems to exist if you started out on a hard difficulty, maybe inflation is influenced by more than just time?
Taalen
Chieftain
It's most likely the difficult. I'm in no way a good Civ player, always neglecting military way too much - that's what I get for being a pacifistic culture builder, I suppose. I play vanilla Civ4 with some of the lowest difficulty settings to manage. In FFH, well, I've found it impossible NOT to dominate on Noble, or even Prince. After I began playing on Monarch I finally had to actually learn how to play to survive instead of victory just happening (granted, I hardly ever finish a game, though - I like to play long games with huge maps, just watching how things evolve and what becomes of the world)
Can't resist not to mention.. so far my most enjoyable game by far has been as Sheiam, with flexible difficulty (starting with Monarch), totally landlocked by Svarts with four cities. Two valleys to defend. In the beginning I didn't do very well, and difficulty went down to Noble and possibly below. Which gave me a huge boost, putting my score unrealistically high - for long enough to take it up to Immortal. After which I was stuck somewhere in the middle and had to face hugely upgraded Svart troops. Awesome feeling of desperation there. I ended up desperately exploring Pyre of the Seraphic, which was next to my capital, to produce some poweful barbarian units to slow down the Svarts.
I need to try that again one of these days
I tried to spam units, but it didn't work very well for me. My units kept getting swarmed by catapults/other siege units and then cleaned up. My own catpults kept dying to assassins. Then again, in that game I was also playing Khazad, so magic was out of the question. I was at 100% research, but it was going painfully slow. The only thing I could do is expand outward, but my attempts at war were doing pretty poorly. If I did split my units up to avoid the collateral damage, they still got picked off.
JonathanStrange
PrinceWithA1000Enemies
As it happens, I play on Deity level, most often as the Ljosalfars, on pangaea maps, normal speed. Virtually every game, the enemy civs (it's usually more than one) launch a huge early game attack either one after the other or simultaneously. Frankly, I usually have to turtle in the early game and rely on the despised archers; which are actually quite useful for Elves. The Elves are a race that gets much stronger after the early game's trauma passes.
BUT, I wouldn't recommend other civs necessarily rushing Archery and DOWing neighbors early. Archers aren't that great for other civs to divert to most times anyway and usually the AI is stronger earlier so DOWing isn't usually advisable.
I'd recommend using the Civ specific strategy guides and threads; I do. The Ljosalfars have unique strengths that work well for them, most of those involve archery, Fellowship of Leaves, mages with Fireball, Maelstrom, etcl, druids, etc. The early game subtleties usually include everything from choosing hilltop city sites, queuing up 5-6 warriors right off (delaying workers/settlers), gaining XPs to promote units to Combat I, Guerilla I, Woodsman I, etc., getting the early Elven hero Gilden Silveric, etc. Again the details vary from map to map.
Tacgnol
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2008
- Messages
- 216
Marathon is your problem.
On marathon, the unit costs are only doubled while everything else from research costs to turns is tripled, making it the ideal setting for war. A marathon war in which one side has a much larger army and simply conquers their foes takes as many turns as a normal speed war, but takes a third of the time in all other respects.
Personally, I absolutely cannot get into BtS games that aren't on marathon, they are painfully short. But in FFH anything slower than Normal just seems waaaaaaay too slow. Normal speed in FFH really feels to me like marathon in BtS, maybe a little faster but much slower than epic speed. And in both, I find that I have already guaranteed a win by the time I near-finish the tech tree, but I still have an enemy or two to conquer, and enough of a battle to win it that my endgame units get to see some action. It's not like I start out fast, I generally don't even finish my first conquest without Champions. If I was playing on Marathon, though, my first enemy would go down entirely with axes, and I would probably end the game without even having Mithril on my Champions. FFH involves a lot of epic war and conquest, which is what Marathon is designed for, and so when you combine the two you end up with a bloody battle that hopefully ends with you winning the game and pushes everything else to the background, ending the game before you finish with your economy and research.
