Runaway and Espionage AIs

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by TheMeInTeam, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Hey all, there was some interest in the runaway AIs I've been working on.

    I actually picked up the XML editing again after a long break for a PYL series special. I don't have the AIs set for that map, but I made a test run with 1 very powerful AI. I also tried to make one prioritize espionage relentlessly...not sure if that one is as effective.

    Our new leaders are Runaway AI (in place of tokugawa): CRE/IMP, unitprob 90, waits to declare until it has a lot of power.

    and

    Water Poison: EXP/CHA, replaces washington. Unitprob 40, similar to runaway AI is very difficult to get a good disposition.

    These guys weren't designed to be fair, which means some of the more advanced players might want to take a crack at games that include them, especially Runaway AI. I will have similar AIs vastly toned down for the next PYL game, so that you can choose to use them or default AIs.

    To try them out, just past the contents into your CUSTOM assets folder.

    View attachment 205075
     
  2. assass1n

    assass1n Warlord

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    I think runaway AI is going to come for me with a stack of warriors and axes post-Gunpowder :D
    That unitprob won't allow it to tech at all
     
  3. nanomage

    nanomage Longbowman

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    Start a game with these guys!
    it's difficult to say anything just from gazing a the unitprob, you need to see it in action. I only might guess that the runaway guy would better not be isolated ;)
     
  4. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    How does unitprob 90 not absolutely destroy itself economically???
     
  5. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Does it capture enough land early that raw power lets it dominate the tech race?
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    1. It likes cottages.
    2. It is set to tech whore at all dispositions, and with a higher cap than mansa musa
    3. Its flavor is growth, and with CRE/IMP it expands something ridiculous.
    4. It tends to engulf neighbors

    In test games, it kept up with the other AIs. Whether that was due to its massive trade preference or just the fact that it was huge and laid beatdowns I don't know, but my estimation is that this AI would be a serious problem on high levels regardless of whether it spawned near you or far away.

    It has some other fun surprises to it also ;).

    I want to post a PYL game with some AIs, but I want them to be more fair, and I want more of them :lol:. Especially the fair part though...I don't think many people outside the best would actually enjoy playing with runaway AI for more than a game or so.
     
  7. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    well a human player going unitprob 90 would crash faster than you can say strike, but a high level AI pays very little in maintenance costs...so I can see that this AI might be able to keep afloat on high levels.
     
  8. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Sounds interesting. I'll give it a whirl on immortal this weekend if I find the time. What attitude do you need to not get war declarations and war bribes?
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Whatever attitude is greater than friendly (90% war roll every turn for all dispositions - but remember it has to be much stronger before it declares).

    Oh, but it's not like you could possibly get it over cautious anyway. I took those modifiers out. So, no getting it to friendly for diplo (for you or other AIs), and certainly no war bribes. I think you'll find even mapping it out to be...somewhat more difficult than normal.

    Like I said, I designed it to be unfair. Knowing you, you'll probably find a way to beat it though, unless it spawns right next to you, then even if you hold it off the costs of doing so early will likely be too great.
     
  10. assass1n

    assass1n Warlord

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    Ahh I thought he was Toku with a 90 unitbuild prob :D
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    He does share toku's unwillingness to open borders or trade maps, but that's mostly to annoy the player...everything else is completely different.
     
  12. assass1n

    assass1n Warlord

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    But if he doesn't OB will the other AI's trade with it ?
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Most will.
     
  14. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    About the 90% unit AI... is there any way we can get it to mass build warriors and upgrade them to Macemen/Musketmen for some additional ridiculousness? This should again double its unit output and make it a lot more monstrous, especially if it likes cottages...

    This can be done until Rifling or Military Science if it avoids hunting and either also avoids engineering (who needs trebuchets if macemen are practically free...) or doesn't retain iron if it has copper.
     
  15. Zeiter

    Zeiter Prince

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    I think this is what the Civ4 developers were talking about when they were joking on how the Civ4 AI was "designed to lose", or at least designed to not play in a ruthlessly optimal fashion that would confine the human opponent to a similar constricted style of gameplay. In other words, the Civ4 AI was designed for fun and interact-ability, not competitiveness. If they had wanted to design the Civ4 AI for pure competitiveness, I bet this is what the Civ4 AI would look like.

    But can you imagine how many new, general-public players would just get (unreasonably) frustrated when their "friendly" neighbor declares on them out of nowhere with overwhelming force? I say, "unreasonably," because isn't this what the human is "allowed" to do all the time? In a way, you have programmed an AI civ that plays more like a human, without the arbitrary constraints on opportunistic behavior, and thus without the easy predictability and amenability to clever manipulation.

    (More) intelligent AI is probably quite feasible. The question is, deep down, would we really want it?...or, in other words, however much we like to complain about how the AI sux, perhaps we actually enjoy preying upon such AI stupidities....
     
  16. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    It isn't possible with just XML edits, you'd have to go into the code much further. If I could do that kind of stuff, I'd also be able to do things like force AIs to pick a city specialization and use the emphasize feature accordingly. No more auto AI workers swapping improvements endlessly. I'd make it also select buildings based on its specialization. The AI wouldn't play as well as a human, but it would manage to set up rudimentary specializations, such as oxford in a commerce (likely bur) cap, hammer cities with HE or IW, and even rudimentary GP farms.

    Selecting city specialization would require some conditional coding. On most maps, one could just tell the AI to wait until it settles all the land it can without war to pick specializations, and even vary its decisions based on how many cities it has when it runs out of land.

    But, I have no ability to do any of that, and it would require some quite extensive modding...far past the XML tweaks I did here :).

    However, note that an AI with 90 unitprob necessarily spams units, and they ARE coded to upgrade basically everything, so it IS taking advantage of the cheap upgrade abuse indirectly/partially. IMO it's that plus its trade whoring that makes it so effective.
     
  17. Airefuego

    Airefuego King

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    Subscribing: looking forward to hearing a few reports on how Runaway AI goes, and hopefully a few screenshots! :)
     
  18. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Well I got killed by it in my first test game. It wasn't even a nearby neighbor but it decided to attack me (about 20-30 tiles away). And then... it wasn't pretty. I WB'ed a few MA in just to see how the AI would do more long-term and it manages to tech decently considering how badly it spam units. Definitely not an AI for the weak of heart :lol: If I start next to it, I would definitely want to be protective.
     
  19. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Ok, doing better on my second try as I wasn't his first target. However, I did manage to get OB with him:

    We're in a mutual struggle - is that why he's willing to OB with me?

     
  20. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    That's odd. Maybe it's a loophole I missed, he shouldn't open borders even at friendly, so not sure what prompted his request here.
     

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