1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Running out of money during war

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by dsfsdf, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. dsfsdf

    dsfsdf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Heres my cities. I figured out where my screenshots folder was located lol.

    http://postimg.org/image/5b8vfli7z/

    This is from a game that I quit my save on, Tianjin (on the left) will become mine soon.
     
  2. dsfsdf

    dsfsdf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    nevermind lol.
     
  3. ikotomi

    ikotomi Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    320
    You get to that number by focusing on the early game and streamlining your movements, build order, and tech choices.

    Most notably, this comes from efficient worker management, so you can work the good tiles earlier, learning to grow and whip effectively, and avoiding building extra stuff you don't need early on. There are so many decisions to be made early on that you're probably getting overwhelmed by them and making little mistakes here and there add up over time. This is where others can help you. The small mistakes probably come from more general misconceptions you have about the game, like fearing too early the threat of barbs or other civs and starting to build your military too early when you can build more settlers/workers.
     
  4. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,372
    Are you playing vanilla? Do you have BTS?
     
  5. dsfsdf

    dsfsdf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Whenever I gain access to copper I start building at least one axeman for every city that I have, because if i dont then the barbarians eventually come around with axemen. And I did build up my army a bit after that because of what i said earlier about religions and other civs, but after your tip about "if youre ticking off other civs then select no state religion" now i think i probably wont have to do that. You are absolutely right about how i immediately start building up my army a bit more than what is needed to defend from barbarians, because i would often have a civ going to war with me over religion. But now i wont have to if one civ is disliking me because of religion, i can just enable no state religion lol.

    Im pretty sure im playing vanilla user lymond. I have the option to play BTS but i just click the main game exe.
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,372
    I'm not a robot ;)

    Play BTS..get the BUG mod ..install SP mode..or get BAT mod, if you like shinies. (you can also instlal Blue marble for better graphics regardless)

    Post a start save and let us give you advice from the start. Play normal settings.

    there are other ways of dealing with or preventing barbs then just building axemen en masse.

    Religion an diplomacy is another matter. Certainly, you can adopt a religion if you are in a comfortable position, but you should not be founding early religions.
     
  7. dsfsdf

    dsfsdf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    I am sorry lymond i feel weird just calling people by their username because it is not their real name lol. I am not founding religions, i would just pick up a religion eventually and most of the time it would anger a civilization that was bloodthirsty lol.
     
  8. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,372
    Wait..dsfsdf is not you real name! ...I've just been teasing you anyway :)

    Religion can be powerful in terms on happiness and civics, but it take some experience. It is more than fine though to avoid adopting one early until you work out the diplo ramifications. You need to ascertain what is to your advantage.

    You are playing ..what ..Prince? I think. This is lower level still, so you can get away with a lot. But, of course, you need to improve your gameplay to be able to take advantage of this.

    Again, play BTS. This is the last great version of Civ that everyone plays here. there are a lot of changes to the game. Plus, you can use mods like BUG/BULL, BAT, or BUFFY (for GOTMs and HOF) to enhance your experience.

    Become familiar with the BUG people:

    BUG

    BTS is what made Civ IV one of the greatest games ever
     
  9. dsfsdf

    dsfsdf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Ok can you give me tips on how to deal with barbarians? You said there are other ways to deal with barbs then just building axemen en masse, and early game I am sacrificing some trees to make an axemen for each city. I really dont want to post pics of my civs and wait for responses about barbarians when i could just get the info in this thread. i feel like if i know this about barbarians i can play and learn some more. I read they only spawn in fog of war areas, but that having some around to attack for experience and other things can be beneficial. but if i keep just on barb city around are they going to multiply and come at me like they do now. Also, i really dont want to go to no state religion do you have tips on how to make keeping a religion work. Like i said earlier, usually what happens is I cant adopt the war mongering civilizations religion because they are not bordering my cities, then they get mad at me and start a war. Should i enact open borders early and send missionaries into their cities when there is still a high hope of switching their religion to mine or what. (I used to try this, but it hardly ever worked, i would send a missionary into their city and then I just never got the option to spread the religion, probably because i waited too long and they enacted no spread of non state religion.) Also i dont want to play BTS just yet in case its got more things i have to learn. I just want to play civ 4 for a while lol.
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,372
    Well, it's not really a lot more to learn. It's just a better game in many ways. There's more new civs and wonders and stuff. But mainly there's some improvement to some game mechanics that will make it a better experience. Plus, giving advice on a version no one really plays any more gets a bit harder.

    By not being able to see your games, it's is harder for us to really give specific advice. We really don't fully understand where your "game" stands at this point.

    So my advice would be to start a new thread over in Strategy & Tips, where really this thread should be, and post your game. Screenshots help too, but if we can open your game it really helps a lot. (screenshots should have resource bubbles)

    You can prevent a lot of barbs by "spawnbusting" with warriors. A unit will "spawnbust" a 5X5 tile area. I assume that still works in vanilla. Also, if you are encountering axes you may not be expanding fast enough or playing larger maps..that is another issue.

    I don't know what AIs you are dealing with here. I think you mentioned Alex. i would probably have just killed him by now regardless.

    I open borders with everyone immediately after writing unless there's an AI that is particular hated by most others. Foreign trade routes are hugely important, plus open borders improves diplo over time. These are things you need to be considering.

    I don't know enough about your current situation to make a recommendation of religion. You've adopted one and would not like to change back. Well, then you just need to deal with anyone who objects. I would not worry about wasting hammers on missionaries. Just deal with the heathens.

    I don't like chopping forests into axes unless you plan to use them. Otherwise, I want those chops into settlers or workers, or important wonders. Or just save some for later.

    Again, really we are giving you advice in a "vacuum". We can give more pointed advice once we see your game.

    Keep in mind that we all are eager to see you improve :)
     
  11. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,159
    Gender:
    Male
    You need to value one option against the other. If you hire two Scientists in a city and thereby can create an Academy in the capital or bulb Education -> Liberalism (1 landmass) or also Optics -> Astronomy (multiple landmasses that aren't reachable by Galleys) , that's a very good opportunity. If you need to take the :hammers: away from building a Granary, that's not wise, but if you take them away from something else, it's worth it. If you hire 2 Artists after building a Theater, than that's an action of hardship, you should only do that if you have no other chance to defend the food of a city against an AI i. e. , because Artists don't have that much interesting bulb options. Take this list as a reference book to find out which GP can bulb what if you research the tech x. This somehow seems to be very advanced knowledge, but being able to use Specialists with meaning is such a strong ability, that it'll easily up your game by a whole level, and once you've understood how it works, it's actually quite understandeable. It's not easy, but it's definitely worth learning.
     
  12. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,159
    Gender:
    Male
    @ dsfsdf & Lymond (" Lime" ^^ ) :

    I understand both of you. dsfsdf, you should definitely play BtS instead of Vanilla and also install the BUG-mod, it's like playing a completely different game. Vanilla has some horrible mechanics because it's older. BtS however is a legend, it's the best developed turn-base-strategy-game (TBS-game) ever developed. BUG mod gives you tons of info, like having a techometer in a car. It's so essential, that nobody of us would be willing to play without it after having had it, you'll notice this aswell.

    @ Lime: I agree with you, that posting a game and getting advice is the best way of learning, I understand though that some users simply don't want that, as I also was below those users. It's a completely uncommon way for some players. You do the right thing by simply answering her questions, just think you were explaining the game towards a player and try to adapt to what he / she tells you. It's not necessary to give 100% exact, specific and 100% true advice, sometimes only a link is needed with a rough description of what to expect or what this is good for, sometimes questions really are that simple as they are. The last is especially true for CIV, because the manual of CIV is a pure joke, as are Sid's tips or the advice of the advisors. Just read the text closely and try to imagine the situation her game is in. If you're unsure about something, you simply give advice for several situations or very general advice and let her find out herself ;) .
     
  13. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Addition:

    Give examples and tell what you know about CIV.

    @ dsfsdf: Try to imagine, that some of us play this game for so long and have played it so often, that they give extremely specific advice. When they see a screenshot of your game, they see 20 different things from which you notice 1-3, and they logically arrange all of that information in their brains to give you advice on how to proceed. This is what Lime is trying to tell you. Without you posting screenshots, we can only give you advice for maybe up to Prince, because after that, the game becomes so difficult, that we need more than those 1-3 infos. Lime has so much knowledge, that your questions are like you ask him "what eat" , where he doesn't know if you're hungry, if you search the next restaurant, or if you want general information on food or 1000 more things, because all of those things are different situations for him, in which he would all act differently. Also try to imagine, that we're also so long in this virtual world already, that our nicknames i. e. have become part of ourselves. We're used to get called by that name and we have read (or even heard, if you play MMOs and use Teamspeak i. e.) it so often, that we react towards that name as if it were our own.

    Plz try to not be offended by anything of this. Try to understand the info in this text right.
     
  14. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,685
    The part where you go wrong is building an axe for each city. Barbs are fought outside your borders, not within them. As lymond mentioned, barbs cannot spawn in a 5x5 tile area around any other unit, nor in any tile that you have visibility on from cultural borders. If you place warriors 5 tiles apart 3-4 tiles outside your borders, no barb can ever spawn closer than 6 tiles from your lands. Fortify your spawnbusting warriors in forests, preferably forested hills, then any incoming archers will die attempting to take them out. Give spawnbusting warriors Woodsman promotions if you earn XP from fighting barbs.

    With efficient spawnbusting, you can often make sure that no barbarians ever will attack you.If you are on a peninsula, you can often cover every single tile in that direction with only a couple of warriors. No axes needed there, only warriors, because no barbs will ever appear there. Also, when barbs spawn, they head for the closest city. If this is an AI city, they'll be going there, not coming your way. If you can cover more than half the distance between your own border and your neighbours border with spawnbusters, they'll all be heading towards the neighbour instead. If the neighbour is far away, this is not worth attempting though, costs too much.

    One common beginner mistake is to send early warriors out to the far corners of the world to explore. What lies far beyond your borders is of no concern early in the game. You only need enough map knowledge to know where to settle your next couple of cities. Pangaea already mentioned the worker->3-4 warriors->settler opening. Those 3-4 warriors are spawnbusters that form a barrier outside your borders, preventing barbs from entering. No military units at all are needed within your own borders until some city needs one to stay happy.

    Also, you should be aware that no barbs will enter your borders to attack your cities until the average amount of cities for all civilizations in the game >3. On prince level, it takes quite a while until you get to that point.

    Oh, and don't think of barbs as a source of experience for now. Just do your best to prevent them from disturbing you. If possible, prevent them from spawning at all.
     
  15. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,985
    Looking at this map, the first things that strikes me is that your cities are pretty spread out. Especially on the higher levels, this means high maintenance costs. Overlapping your cities is a good habit to get into. Worker management is easier, it's easier to defend your empire against barbs and other AIs, and overall you get more cities, which will increase commerce and thus your economy. Don't plan city spots based on every city with a full 21-tile "area". It takes a veeeeery long time for cities to grow that large, and most likely few, if any, will get that big unless you go for space. Therefore it's better to build cities with more overlap. They can share resources too, and around your capital the surrounding cities can help grow cottages for the capital, and when the capital grows, it grows onto already developed cottages.

    I find it difficult to see much with resource bubbles turned off, but apart from your sucky north, the land looks very good with that long juicy floodplained river. You could have put more cities around there, and let them build cottages on the floodplains. It's perfect for them. The city keeps growing, while developing the economy with cottages.

    If you had placed more cities along that east-west path, that naughty AI couldn't have got through your culture to found that NE city either. So many benefits with city overlap :)

    Crikey... just noticed this is a screenshot from 1502. I thought it was 1000BC or something :lol: By 1500AD, you should have developed the empire a LOT more, and built more cities.

    I also wholeheartedly echo the wish for you to play/get Civ 4 Beyond the Sword. It's mainly due to that highly polished and balanced version that people play this game so long after release, and it's why it's superior to Civ 5. In fairness some things are a tad unbalanced, like corporations, but overall it's a better game than vanilla.
     
  16. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,372
    Oh wow..that is 1500AD or so. Yeah, teching Paper with like 5 cities at this date is just not a good position.

    I recommend that you just move on from this particular game and start another one, getting advice for the early game.

    A coupla other bits of advice:

    1) early game is hugely important - from how you manage workers and builds, to expansion, economy, etc....game is a lot about snowball effect

    2) At some point fairly early you should start setting goals for yourself and for the game. Enables you to play with some sort of purpose and allows you to direct your resources towards those objectives.

    Reason I say this, dsf, and it is not to be critical, is that your game lacks direction among other things. This is perfectly fine though as you are a newer player, or at least a less experienced player who is learning. However, we can really help you improve your game fast with some direction.
     
  17. Ambidexter

    Ambidexter Edjumacated Idjit

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Deciding where to put your second and third cities is critical. A city which can't grow or doesn't produce very much does you no good.

    If you haven't determined what win you're trying before you reach the classical era you're not going to win.
     
  18. dsfsdf

    dsfsdf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    nevermind
     
  19. dsfsdf

    dsfsdf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Yo guys posted a lot and I had nothing to say. I figure you deserve an update. Update. A note on Chicago, I usually have 5 scientists in Chicago but I am building an aqueduct there right now.

    http://postimg.org/image/u99f4lt31/

    http://postimg.org/image/q9s32exal/

    Chicago and New York are my great person factories. Most of the time I have 5 scientists in Chicago and New York but I cant have any more due to pollution in those cities. I am probably going to prioritize getting refrigeration at some point so I can grow these cities larger. Also going to install a grocer once I get the tech required. I usually dont make it this far in the game on Prince mode by the way so Im mostly just researching techs that the game recommends at this point in the game.

    http://postimg.org/image/yqielun7x/

    I know my cities are spread out, I didnt get the memo about building them closer together before I started this game. I also only have six cities and pretty much nowhere to go to settle a seventh city. I also did not get the memo about "you should probably get more than six cities" or whatever that person said lol.

    I am running Pacifism, (100 percent great person output) Organized Religion, Monarchy, Caste System, Beurocracy. In Chicago (one of my great person factory cities) I built the Globe theatre and I think I also built National Epic there. If i didnt build National Epic there then I built it in New York (my other great person factory city). I only have 60 percent research probably due to my cities being so far apart and therefore not being able to make me a lot of money, I am considering raising the research as high as I can get it without going into negative money each turn. The only person Im really worried about is Cyrus because he keeps asking me for something. If its techs im like "nah bro" and I think sometimes he asks me to go to war with him too, and I have a very small weak army and war is bad for research and stuff anyway so thats a no go lol. Anyway all his requests got him annoyed at me, but i quit that save. Him getting annoyed at me happens a few turns past this. By the way I am still playing vanilla Civ 4 and will try to remember to play Beyond the Sword for my next game lol :) Also Boston has been there for a long time but probably will not grow much larger than that due to not having good food sources around. Its just trouble with city placement which I will work on as i mentioned earlier. But I juts got a Great Artist from New York and sent it to Boston and if I get anymore i will send them to Boston for a permanent culture and gold increase per turn.

    Heres the points for each team. I thought it would show up in my world map pic but it didnt.

    1974 (Cyrus)
    1267 (Napolean) (i only recently met him i think most of his cities are on a different island)
    1226 (C W) (me lol)
    1160 (Saladin)
    941 (Tokugawa)
     
  20. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,372
    hey dsf

    I know you received a lot of feedback. You need to digest and move toward exercising all that in a new game. Again, honestly, that game you have going now is going nowhere. There's no plan, no purpose, and it's full of the many mistakes we're are trying to help you with here.

    I recommend starting a new game over in Strategy & Tips forum (again, where this thread should really be), using BTS :). If you really want to learn and improve, that is the best thing you can do right now. The problems go back to the very important early game activity. This is really where you need to put your focus on now.

    We all really want to help you, but there not much we can do for that game in such a late stage, and in a version of Civ very few even play anymore. At this point, I think you are mainly having fun building all the things. What we liked to do is show how to win ;)
     

Share This Page