Rushing early on Monarch - Warriors, Archers, Axes, Horses?

salty mud

Deity
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4,949
Location
die Schweiz
I'm trying to improve my early rushing game. I'm struggling to learn what the best method is to rush an opponent. Of course it depends on a variety of factors - the proximity of your neighbours, resources you/they have available, who your opponent is (are they protective, for example). I can't seem to rush without tanking my economy.

With early copper, it's easy. Research BW, build mine, whip axes, conquer numerous cities. Without copper or iron or horses though, it's significantly harder, especially since the AI start with Archery.

How would you tackle an early rush with no metals or horses?
 
Depends. Nothing wrong with teching to construction and using cats+whatever (archerpult is definitely doable up to immortal). Also there is very little risk involved with this strategy. Riskier things are possible, as I have successfully done an archer rush on immortal, normal speed.

Spoiler :
High :hammers: tiles to start with, chops, 6 archers next to AI capital on T42 (btw I think I got archery from a hut :yumyum:). I did win the war, but I had to beat 3 archers inside capital with 6 archers, so it's a high variance play. Game is a forum game btw, Immortal University Suryavarman (don't know the number), so the starting save is somewhere on this forum.

If this is possible on immortal, it is certainly possible on monarch...

Civ4ScreenShot0520.JPG



Anyway, you are spot on with the "tanking your economy" part. :commerce:/:gold: needs to come from somewhere and you need to have a plan, be it cottages, coastal tiles, specialists, special high:commerce:-tiles, pure conquest gold or building research/wealth. From what I've seen, this is the hard part for many players trying to climb up in difficulty levels.

Whether you rush or not, I think the biggest focus on learning the game should center around building up your empire.
 
Last edited:
So the game that I mentioned was number II. Number VI was necroed by Pangaea roughly a year ago and it was a really fun game.
 
Hello Salty Mud,
I think tanking the economy as you said is expected when rushing and pretty much unavoidable especially early game (later you could spare some "money producitng cities" but then it's not really a rush anymore). Considering that 1. you will whip pretty much everywhere 2. will work almost only food tiles 3. Will have a lot of unit maintenance and 4. the units are outside of you border, you can't really rush and still have a nice financial situation.
However you make whole bunch of money when capturing cities. They also can be used to whip units when they get out of revolt, and your whipped-to-death cities can start working money tiles again. Eventually you run out of steam and you can get nice trades out of peace deal, and you have to recover your economy (cottages, courthouse, gpt deals). So it's to expect that your tech rate kinds of stop, but when it's back alive you should tech much faster, since you have so many cities now.
Well in theory anyway.
 
Thanks for reminding me about that game @sampsa. It fits well with this topic too, as it was a good game to practice both rushing and fixing your economy.
 
Depends how early you want to attack, but i'd echo a few others who mention catapults +. The 'safest' way is catapults plus anything. Works surprisingly late as well and for a while, at least on immortal.
 
I doubt that Monarch maps without copper, Iron and horsie spots exist.. ;)

But this could be a great chance for the glorious avoiding bronze working & bulbing Feuda strategy, some might remember that masterpiece.
 
I doubt that Monarch maps without copper, Iron and horsie spots exist.. ;)

But this could be a great chance for the glorious avoiding bronze working & bulbing Feuda strategy, some might remember that masterpiece.
Not knowing if metals exists does not happen without BW in normal games...
 
I'm trying to improve my early rushing game. I'm struggling to learn what the best method is to rush an opponent. Of course it depends on a variety of factors - the proximity of your neighbours, resources you/they have available, who your opponent is (are they protective, for example). I can't seem to rush without tanking my economy.

With early copper, it's easy. Research BW, build mine, whip axes, conquer numerous cities. Without copper or iron or horses though, it's significantly harder, especially since the AI start with Archery.

How would you tackle an early rush with no metals or horses?

Barring starting as resourceless UU civ: Archer Choke until Catapults. Choking is still highly effective for me in my comfort zone (Emperor) as long as you are close enough (=<10 tiles to their capitol). Protective helps, as it makes it easier to control AIs that get their hands on metal (chariots are not a problem really, stay off uncovered flatland tiles, but axes in force end an archer choke fast) and Hunting is a big plus since you can determine where they are and get Archery faster if you determine the need after BW/AH doesn't pay off. One of my recent games, as a proof of concept, was a double choke with the best Archer choker in the game: Charlie :lol::rolleyes::mischief: Had a PH Marble to settle on. Killed both HC and JC in succession about 100-120 turns into the game, who curiously both founded religions.

You gotta get used to abusing AI behaviors to choke effectively, as archers can't kill off things by themselves. Get them stuck in loops trying to improve a tile, or trying to walk out a settling party. Let them actually run off with their settling party right before your attack comes in so they move archers out of their city. Get them to chase a warrior/scout around aimlessly inside their borders. Etc. Just being inside their borders forcing them to build defenders and unable to improve anything will grind their game to a halt. I may have been behind everybody else in the game but just 7 archers ruined any chance HC/JC had of doing anything, and I ended up with double the land of all but one of the other civs. The point you end up at feels similar to being isolated and beelining for Optics.

Two different players of two different civ games have espoused this mantra and its holds quite true as far as I'm concerned: just continue to pressure the AI and they will goof eventually, which you capitalize on, whether it's stealing workers, shuffling out defenders, killing units in the open, having them put hammers into units they can't use (settlers) etc.

Economy is a difficulty, yes. You will have to cottage regular land whether you have the luxury of a river or not, and hopefully have a fishing spot to utilize, as every commerce will count. I usually choke with only 2 cities unless I need to grab an important resource (gold mines are top priority) so maintenance + unit cost doesn't absolutely tank me to the point I can't crawl to Fishing and Pottery. The goal is to eventually use Library Scientists to help you dig out and get toward Construction, and you should absolutely bulb Math to catch up as much as you can.
 
I never had much success with choking, but one of my best games started with archers+catapults to capture a good number of cities and resources. Played Gilgamesh so it was also kinda fun to actually have some benefit from the normally worthless protective trait.
 
Just being inside their borders forcing them to build defenders and unable to improve anything will grind their game to a halt.
It's situational, but very often this is the opposite of what I'd like to see. A rapidly expanding neighbor means a lot of easy to capture cities for me, as opposed to getting to capture only one heavily defended choked city. If I'm rushing with immortals or war chartiots, then some choking to prevent them from hooking up metals, sure. But if I'm going in with HAs or some later rush, then I prefer to let them invest into my future empire. Also depends on available land and a lot of other factors, of course.
 
Yep choking is often counter-productive, UNLESS you have a woodsmanII unit (preferably non-warrior) to steal many workers (as that "forces" the AI to put more :hammers: into workers). Just parking an archer near AI capital will stop the AI from expanding (bad for you, you want him to build cities for you) and make him spam archers (very very bad for you).
 
I often find choking counterproductive too, so I basically don't do it any more. By all means, catch some workers if you can, but then cease fire (and repeat, possibly). Sure, the AI won't get much done and will get backwards, but they'll also spam archers, which isn't all that great, especially on hills. Better for you that they expand and spread themselves thin. They're saving you :hammers: in settlers and workers :mischief:
 
Top Bottom