I notice on a lot of videos online guys are rushing (pre cuirs) with so few units. The other day I had built 17 doubly promoted HAs (barracks + stables) by 850BC and it was only enough to take out 3 of Louis 9!! cities [standard/imm/continents]. Sure that was kind of a fluky situation, but I generally find I need way more units than what I see in the videos to not rely on RND, even those vids done on Diety. Is diplo a factor I am missing? Do AIs who are pleased/friendly make less units or something?
rushing with so few units
- Thread starter gaash2
- Start date
Err why do you need 17 units?? How did Louis get 9 cities by 850bc? What settings are you playing. I would not expect that many on normal speed. Not sure you need stables for a HA rush. 1-2 barracks is usually fine. Must HA rushes I do are against 3-6 city strong HA. With at best 3-4 defenders in the capital. I normally start with one main stack. Maybe 1-2 units to pillage any metal resources.
Without a save I couldn't comment more.
Without a save I couldn't comment more.
Settings were Standard/Normal/IMM/Continents
Yea I hadn't saved the game unfort. Clearly I needed more than 17 in this situation
How did he get 9 cities by 850bc? Good question. I did say this was a fluky situation. I don't usually go for stables, but I had very strong production and tech (a couple gold mines if I remember correctly) saw Louis was expanding like crazy so I built them and still launched with a huge stack at a reasonable attack date. I think continents was the reason, we were on a pretty big continent just three of us, so probably that's how.Regardless, that was an extreme example, but I rarely have success with less than 10, even if I launch pre 1000 BC.
Don't get me wrong, btw, HA rush is still one of my most successful paths to victory, but I always find I need much more units than people suggest on the forums or use in the videos. Maybe I'm missing something stupid, like dumb promotions (I'm lazy with promotions) or no super medic sometimes. I'll post a save at some point.
elitetroops
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2012
- Messages
- 5,725
Building barracks+stables and 17 HAs isn't really a rush. A rush is supposed to be fast. Skip the stables and don't wait until you have such a ridiculous amount and you'll be able to attack much earlier.
HA rushes are great, as long as you get to the AI before they start building stacks. Early in the game they build settlers+escorts and workers. If they have room to expand and don't decide to start plotting, they usually won't start massing units until sometime around 1000bc (immortal). They'll have a couple of units as garrison and a few random wandering units. This is the time you want to strike. Sounds like you missed this window of opportunity by preparing too long.
Scouting is also important. If you see someone building stacks, then it's often best to pick another target for your HA rush.
HA rushes are great, as long as you get to the AI before they start building stacks. Early in the game they build settlers+escorts and workers. If they have room to expand and don't decide to start plotting, they usually won't start massing units until sometime around 1000bc (immortal). They'll have a couple of units as garrison and a few random wandering units. This is the time you want to strike. Sounds like you missed this window of opportunity by preparing too long.
Scouting is also important. If you see someone building stacks, then it's often best to pick another target for your HA rush.
That's a really weird situation you're describing here... Only deity AIs expand to 9 cities by 850BC in my experience. To get 17 HAs by 850BC you must also have a very fast start, and even on deity I'd feel very confident with ~12 HAs to take out almost any AI at this point (except in scenarios like Mansa or SB/Shaka with many hills), especially if these are double-promotion HAs. There is definitely something wrong with the way you rush, maybe you should post a forum game and ask for situation-based advice?
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
- Messages
- 15,017
It's important seeing most rushes as step by step process, not full scale wars
Via cease fires, you can start with small stacks and take weakly defended cities, then stop and heal & reinforce.
You gain some captured workers (usually), and new land / cities to work with faster.
Also unit experience + general points, and you are weakening your opponent.
Via cease fires, you can start with small stacks and take weakly defended cities, then stop and heal & reinforce.
You gain some captured workers (usually), and new land / cities to work with faster.
Also unit experience + general points, and you are weakening your opponent.
@Fippy.. I use the strategy you describe often, but like @Pedro78 said, when you have 17 2x promoted HAs at 850 BC you shouldn't have to cease fire with anyone 
Again, I am pretty convinced this particular example was a weird fluke (re my fast start, yes @Pedro78 I had at least 1 if not 2 gold mines, though in general I am a pretty fast starter) but I'll try to post something similar (where I get to 12 or so by around 1000 BC and still have some difficulty with the expected total annihilation I will say, there is a good chance I maybe try to rush 'too fast' (continuing with the fresh units vs healing a little etc.)
Again, I am pretty convinced this particular example was a weird fluke (re my fast start, yes @Pedro78 I had at least 1 if not 2 gold mines, though in general I am a pretty fast starter) but I'll try to post something similar (where I get to 12 or so by around 1000 BC and still have some difficulty with the expected total annihilation I will say, there is a good chance I maybe try to rush 'too fast' (continuing with the fresh units vs healing a little etc.)nah played other games since then ... i start a lot of games and finish few ... I may have a random save from some point in time, I'll look when I get home.
