Russia Gate

[Ajidica]

Not seeing "the agents didn't think Flynn lied" in their memo of the interview as it is a straight summation of what Flynn was asked and his responses, not their thoughts or an internal Bureau thought process.

 

[Berzerker]

I would be curious to see where you saw that, especially as the stated reason Flynn was fired was because he lied to Pence and Spicer.

Firstly, Flynn pleading guilty when assisted by able counsel is a far cry from some poor schmuck pleading guilty to dodgy weed possession charges. As the much vaunted (at least, before it was released and didn't confirm your conspiracy theory) Horowitz Report stated, there was sufficient evidence to meet the bar for an FBI counterintelligence investigation. Further, and it seems to bear repeating, Flynn was a high ranking military officer with experience at the top of the US security services.I, for one, don't have a problem with the FBI doing counterintelligence investigations on ex-high ranking military officers who are shilling for disreputable Turks. On my list of things to be worried about when it comes to spooks, spooks doing spook things to ex-spooks isn't that high up there.


We've been over this. The Horowitz Report found that the investigation into Flynn was based on sufficient evidence. When it comes to spooks, the old Reagan adage comes into play "Trust but verify", and simply repeating "Flynn was framed by a Clinton plot" doesn't count as verification.


Stepping back for a second, the whole theory that the Clinton/Obama teams were feeding the FBI fake info to frame Flynn/take down Trump looks especially shaky when effectively none of this information came to light before Trump was elected. At the same time, Comey was being all cute announcing for dubious reasons he was re-opening the Clinton investigation. Quite a cruddy deep state plot if it can't stop the person you are trying to stop from becoming president.

I'll have to go back and watch the vids I posted, I saw the reference to the 2 agents believing Flynn didn't lie to them there. It doesn't matter if Flynn had a good lawyer, he was given a plea deal with no jail time and they leave his kid alone...or... go to trial and they go after his kid too.

My 'theory' was the FBI used the Steele Dossier to lie to a Fisa court to spy on Page and Horowitz did not clear that of bias, but it turns out they were investigating Flynn before that. Why? The Horowitz report said he found no evidence the Papadopolous investigation was biased, but Durham is also investigating that and when the IG report came out he issued a statement to that effect.

The reason why the FBI couldn't go public is because they didn't find anything. Steele framed Page and Page was not only clean, he was a CIA asset. As I explained, Comey had to announce a resumption of the email investigation because that information would have been leaked and the FBI would look like they're were trying to keep it quiet.

Who do you think Comey wanted to win? If you agree Hillary was his choice, why would he endanger her chances? Because the alternative was worse, the FBI resumes the email investigation and dont tell us, then its leaked and we find out anyways. Comey did what he could to spare Hillary, he announced reopening the investigation to get out in front of the leak and then he cleared her again days before the election.

 

[Berzerker]

Ukraine Gate news, Biden phone call to Poroshenko was leaked. Biden tells Ukrainian president the billion $ loan guarantee was on the way after prosecutor Viktor Shokin was fired. The interesting thing about the call was Poroshenko told Biden Shokin was fired even though they had nothing on him. The Dems and their media kept telling us he was corrupt and thats why he was fired.

 

[Berzerker]

Shokin was fired for investigating Burisma and the Dems and their media told us he was fired for not investigating Burisma. They lie more than Trump.

Not seeing "the agents didn't think Flynn lied" in their memo of the interview as it is a straight summation of what Flynn was asked and his responses, not their thoughts or an internal Bureau thought process.

From what I can see that transcript was a 302 form summation of the interview, the agents also submitted notes and thats where they described their interpretation of the interview. Comey was asked if Flynn lied and he said "I dont know". They allowed for the possibility of a faulty memory, but Flynn asked them why they weren't reading the transcript when he couldn't remember the conversation. Flynn knew they had a transcript, so where's the motive to lie?

 

[Estebonrober]

Shokin was fired for investigating Burisma and the Dems and their media told us he was fired for not investigating Burisma. They lie more than Trump.



From what I can see that transcript was a 302 form summation of the interview, the agents also submitted notes and thats where they described their interpretation of the interview. Comey was asked if Flynn lied and he said "I dont know". They allowed for the possibility of a faulty memory, but Flynn asked them why they weren't reading the transcript when he couldn't remember the conversation. Flynn knew they had a transcript, so where's the motive to lie?

This is all complete revisionist garbage. Shokin was fired because it looked like he took a bribe from Russian oil interests. We've been down that road and no new information has shown anything else, you do not have a real motive or benefit for Biden firing Shokin. Shokin tried to revise his whole account after the Biden kid thing came up but it was little of nothing.

Flynn was guilty of acting as a foreign agent for a long time and basically started acting as one for Russia as well as Turkey and never declared. He is guilty, period end of story.

This revisionist crap is just that, people trying to rework the messy crap that is Russian foreign affairs into a story that supports whom? Yes fudging Russian oil kingpins. Go fudging figure.

 

[Ajidica]

@Berzerker : At the end of the day, Flynn was fired from his job as National Security Advisor for lying to Spicer and Pence. To my knowledge, Mike Pence stands by the statement Flynn was fired because he lied. Flynn later, assisted by able counsel, plead guilty to lying to the FBI in the course of a counterintelligence investigation. Flynn was running dodgy schemes with disreputable Turks and tried to play clever with the FBI which demonstrated an extreme recklessness or indifference to potential blackmail concerns.

@Estebonrober : It's worth remembering Flynn was an equal-opportunity paranoid weirdo and was publishing books claiming America was threatened by an Islamofascist axis stretching from Moscow to Tehran to Havana and Caracas.
https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster73/lob73-field-of-fight.pdf#search="flynn"

 

[Estebonrober]

@Berzerker : At the end of the day, Flynn was fired from his job as National Security Advisor for lying to Spicer and Pence. To my knowledge, Mike Pence stands by the statement Flynn was fired because he lied. Flynn later, assisted by able counsel, plead guilty to lying to the FBI in the course of a counterintelligence investigation. Flynn was running dodgy schemes with disreputable Turks and tried to play clever with the FBI which demonstrated an extreme recklessness or indifference to potential blackmail concerns.

@Estebonrober : It's worth remembering Flynn was an equal-opportunity paranoid weirdo and was publishing books claiming America was threatened by an Islamofascist axis stretching from Moscow to Tehran to Havana and Caracas.
https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster73/lob73-field-of-fight.pdf#search="flynn"

You mean he is one of these neo-americana conspiracy minded morons? Yea. Idk what to do about them. I used to love Art Bell Coast to Coast. Conspiracy theories were fun and cute now they are deadly and scary.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Shokin was fired for investigating Burisma and the Dems and their media told us he was fired for not investigating Burisma. They lie more than Trump.

The Bags of cash ?
Diamonds ?
Passports ?
Property deeds ?
Failure for a single conviction for the previous regime ?
The scandel rocked Ukraine government and spawned its own unique name The diamond Prosecutors
Are you somehow failing to connect the dots here ?

Viktor Shokin: The inside story
A search of the men’s apartments revealed a scene that looked like a comic heist: bags full of cash, diamonds and other precious stones. But that was not the only incriminating evidence. Documents seized at the time indicated the men appeared to have a connection to the top prosecutor in the land, Viktor Shokin.
Police found copies of Shokin’s passports, property registration certificates and even his licence to carry firearms. One of the two men, it transpired, was Shokin’s former driver who had subsequently climbed the ranks behind his boss.
The top prosecutor would also depart in March 2016, at the behest of US vice-president Joe Biden. It was an intervention into local politics that would come back to haunt both Biden and Ukraine.
Shokin’s year atop the prosecutor’s office was for a long time remembered simply as the time of the “diamond prosecutors”.

For activists, Shokin’s prosecutorship is remembered for its failure to secure convictions for crimes of the previous regime. These include the killing of more than 100 protesters during the Euromaidan revolution.
“Shokin impeded those fighting for justice,” said Vitaly Tytych, a lawyer representing the families of the victims. “It is wrong to call what he did investigations. Because if there is one thing Shokin never did it is investigate.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-joe-investigation-impeachment-a9147001.html

 

[Berzerker]

This is all complete revisionist garbage. Shokin was fired because it looked like he took a bribe from Russian oil interests. We've been down that road and no new information has shown anything else, you do not have a real motive or benefit for Biden firing Shokin. Shokin tried to revise his whole account after the Biden kid thing came up but it was little of nothing.

Shokin raided Burisma shortly before he was fired. In fact, he was fired right after a court ruled his investigation of 'reformers' taking money from western actors could proceed. Poroshenko told Biden they had no cause to fire Shokin. Yeah, Biden was concerned about bribes. Meanwhile his kid was making millions and Daddy got the prosecutor investigating his company fired. Nothing to see here, move along.

The Bags of cash ?
Diamonds ?
Passports ?
Property deeds ?
Failure for a single conviction for the previous regime ?
The scandel rocked Ukraine government and spawned its own unique name The diamond Prosecutors
Are you somehow failing to connect the dots here ?

Why would a former driver for Shokin have his passports and licenses? Do they have evidence Shokin took a bribe?

 

[red_elk]

There is nothing extraordinary in the fact that Ukrainian general prosecutor was corrupt. It's more like a norm there.
It was never the reason to fire him, though.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

You mean he is one of these neo-americana conspiracy minded morons? Yea. Idk what to do about them. I used to love Art Bell Coast to Coast. Conspiracy theories were fun and cute now they are deadly and scary.

"And this is how the entire world came to be like Richard Nixon"

 

[Estebonrober]

"And this is how the entire world came to be like Richard Nixon"

Yea sure, frankly I'm hoping for better as the death spiral of stupid continues. Eventually this tilts back the other way and people stop acting like complete idiots.

 

[Estebonrober]

Shokin raided Burisma shortly before he was fired. In fact, he was fired right after a court ruled his investigation of 'reformers' taking money from western actors could proceed. Poroshenko told Biden they had no cause to fire Shokin. Yeah, Biden was concerned about bribes. Meanwhile his kid was making millions and Daddy got the prosecutor investigating his company fired. Nothing to see here, move along.



Why would a former driver for Shokin have his passports and licenses? Do they have evidence Shokin took a bribe?

Look @Berzerker we've done this dance before. This exact dance. Where you see an IMF UN Democrat ran conspiracy, I see simple bribes from Russian oil guys. I know which one is more likely considering their general and relative demeanor.

 

[cardgame]

Glenn Greenwald is a really top notch journalist though, not some youtube crank

video might be long-form and that's a legitimate reason to avoid it I just don't want you guys coming away with the wrong impression

 

[Estebonrober]

Glenn Greenwald is a really top notch journalist though, not some youtube crank

video might be long-form and that's a legitimate reason to avoid it I just don't want you guys coming away with the wrong impression

He's done top notch work, but I feel like he has gone down a rabbit hole here. The worst kind at that, the KGB kind.

 

[cardgame]

I'll admit to having skipped the video as well, so I'm not entirely sure to what you're referring. However, the KGB and CIA and MI6 etc. do all exist in real life, not just fiction novels. Hell, just today I learned that the French spy agency bombed Greenpeace in a foreign country in the 80s and killed a guy in the process, which is pretty freaking insane. Involving them is not an immediate conspiracy theory rabbit hole red flag (though it does make sense to be skeptical).

 

[Ajidica]

Glenn Greenwald is a really top notch journalist though, not some youtube crank

Greenwald is complicated. He is a pretty good journalist, but not very professional. The Intercept was created as a news site focusing on the security services and paramilitary groups. However, back in 2017 I believe, Greenwalk mishandled a leaked document that allowed the FBI to identify who leaked it and arrested them a day or two later. That pretty much wrecked The Intercept's credibility in that field and much of their recent reporting has been of a more generic lefty/contrarian news outlet.
For a while, his insistence that anything related to Russia was all a big hoax concocted by the Democratic Party in cahoots with their tame media saw him kicked upstairs as other staff writers, such as Robert Mackay and another guy whose name I'm blanking on, took over and were publishing more balanced coverage of the Russia affair which basically consisted of "The mainstream media is doing a terrible job reporting on this, but there are enough unexplained links between Trump campaign officials/surrogates and dodgy Russians/Ukrainians/Arabs to be worth investigating".
If I remember right, he also published a whole article about how MI5 has taken over the Guardian, when in reality it was just the Guardian re-establishing formal contacts with MI5 for certain forms of information clearance. (Such as if the Guardian receives information of a possible serious crime, like arms smuggling/terrorism.) Greenwald needs an editor, and without one, his quality is uneven and prone to imagining grand conspiracy theories.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Glenn Greenwald is a really top notch journalist though, not some youtube crank

video might be long-form and that's a legitimate reason to avoid it I just don't want you guys coming away with the wrong impression

He is one of the most important journalists of the 21st century and he did incredibly work. That being said he has gotten really, really weird these last few years. Probably the fact that he's on every list imagineable and probably under surveillance 24/7 has gotten to his head.

At the same time he is one of the very few people openly critizising Israel and gets so much flak for it. On the other he has some developed some really questionable positions to domestic American politics which are rather fringe/conspiratory, but not in the good way. His views on Flynn I also find estranging.

 

[Berzerker]

umm...can Glenn's critics tell us where he got Russia Gate wrong?

He's done top notch work, but I feel like he has gone down a rabbit hole here. The worst kind at that, the KGB kind.

wow

I'll admit to having skipped the video as well, so I'm not entirely sure to what you're referring.

His inner Joe McCarthy is speaking

 

[innonimatu]

If I remember right, he also published a whole article about how MI5 has taken over the Guardian, when in reality it was just the Guardian re-establishing formal contacts with MI5 for certain forms of information clearance. (Such as if the Guardian receives information of a possible serious crime, like arms smuggling/terrorism.) Greenwald needs an editor, and without one, his quality is uneven and prone to imagining grand conspiracy theories.

"We volunteer to destroy the snowden leaks we hold rather than public any more from it" wasn't hint enough?And having a formalized censorship relation with a spy agency is just fine and dandy for a newspaper?

Someone went down the rabbit hole all right.

They sold out. And it started, literally, with the Guardian selling out and becoming an investment fund, with its board controlled not by journalists but by financiers and their approved executives with media experience (not journalists).