Who you think is hired actor in the video and why you believe so? You don't even understand what people are saying.
[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine--Act 3: Ride of the Valkyries
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Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Ah yes Ziggy, you are right, you didn't claim there wasn't any pro-Russian population. My bad.
No worries, we all make mistakes.
No worries, we all make mistakes.
I didn't say you claimed it. You only implied it, quite clearly.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
No, I did not.
Verbose
Deity
Given what the Russian army has subjected the place to, there likely were some pro-Russian population sticking around, waiting for Russia to turn up, only to end up dead, so they won't work to put before camera now.
Moderator Action: Less bickering, more news please.
Ok, fair enough.
There was not too many ways to interpret your handwavy "bad actors" reply, except that you believe everyone who expresses support to Russia is paid actor.
If you agree there are Russian supporters in the city, but think (for example) those who appear on Chechen video captured through dirty windshield are necessarily hired actors, this doesn't seem justified position, especially without explaining why you think so.
Snowygerry
Deity
That I don't know - I'm a thousand miles away.
Soldiers in the Luhansk separatist militia ? Old people often refuse to leave their home, for any army, they have little to lose.
But I do not believe they live there - there is no interaction at all with the houses - they just stand around in the street a bit, to be filmed.
Most likely they were brought in from someplace else nearby to a street that looks somewhat presentable, you can see the streets have been recently cleaned.
Certainly they're not 'paid actors' that would be silly.
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Which only means you didn't bother to watch videos in full. There were scenes with people going out of shelter.
For example at 3:15
I don't see anywhere streets which look presentable or recently cleaned. Ukrainians retreated from the city without long resistance and left it relatively intact.
They only blew up government buildings before retreating, according to what these people say.
Snowygerry
Deity
That's a different street - there's a cut around 2.50, when they switch to the girl,
it's not Eisenstein is it, more likely the Chechen press corps,
I'll watch the second part of the movie, tomorrow at work
citizenofdoom
Prince
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I express concerns for your employers. ):<
What's curious to me - there seems to be no disagreement about the fact that there are Russia's supporters in Lisichansk.That's a different street - there's a cut around 2.50, when they switch to the girl,
it's not Eisenstein is it, more likely the Chechen press corps,
I'll watch the second part of the movie, tomorrow at work
But when Westerners see actual people who treat Russian soldiers as liberators, this causes cognitive dissonanse, they can't believe all these hugs and cry are genuine.
To me there is nothing surprising in these videos, I see people like them every day. They are same Russians with same culture, language and sentiments like ourselves.
Snowygerry
Deity
Ah - but that has nothing to do with the technical qualities of the propaganda clip you posted there,
It is just that since 2014 or so every single line to have come from Russia has been shown to be a lie, starting with the little Green Men, over MH17 to more recently the rather comical 'It's just an exercise...'
So we here have just come to assume that everything that follows the line is also fake.
It is just that since 2014 or so every single line to have come from Russia has been shown to be a lie, starting with the little Green Men, over MH17 to more recently the rather comical 'It's just an exercise...'
So we here have just come to assume that everything that follows the line is also fake.
Not sure what technical quality has to do with anything, tbh.
Quality is low, because it's not propaganda. It's a compilation of several videos captured quite obviously by non-professionals and in crappy environment.
I don't know why you expected Eisenstein (or rather Ehrenburg?) quality from Chechen officer riding APC.
In my opinion it's quite the opposite. Lots of messages about Russia in Western media were lies.
But if you are claiming what I'm posting is lies and propaganda, it's better to give more convincing arguments than your "too clean streets" and "Russia always lies", like you've done so far.
Rg339
Prince
- Joined
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People are gonna wonder if they’re paid actors because Russia has a credibility problem. What else could be expected? Russia said it would not invade, then it did. Russia engages in disinformation campaigns with some frequency. Media there is subject to the state.
Not exactly. People are gonna wonder because they believe Russia's "credibility problems" are any worse than USA's or Ukraine's for example.
Opposite examples like "Ghost of Kiev" or Colin Powell beaker and many others are either forgotten or conveniently ignored.
Which has nothing to do with these videos posted on private telegram channels and copied to youtube.
Not to mention that Russia also has independent media.
Actually, at this point I expect you to sweat blood to prove what Russia is saying is true. A few youtube videos are not it.
The problem is that you are trying to falsely imply that Russia has anything to do in Ukraine, including Crimea, because you found a few guys who on an uncredited youtube channel with a hammer and sickle logo (ergo Russian war propaganda) are happy the Russians liberated them.
I'm going to link this poll once again, which is actually recognized by the international community:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum
Luhansk Oblast 83.86% voted to join Ukraine. Even if we assume that the video is actually genuine (doubt), you found someone from the 16%. Ergo, you still have no business to be in Ukraine.
And yes, unfortunately Russia really does always lie. Every single time, it was proven to lie again and again. Putin lies, Lavrov lies, Peskov lies. You personally may not lie, but your government does every single time. But somehow you don't care that they lie.
You don't feel ashamed that they lied about shooting down a passanger plane, you don't care they lied about Bucha or Kramatorsk. Now if you don't care about these lies, why should we care about anything you have to post? Why should we put in the mental effort to accept anything that comes from a war propaganda channel or ANNA news that you post?
So you don't believe in the Ghost of Kiev or the babushka throwing kompot at a drone stories (they are obviously Ukrainian myths to increase morale), but you do believe the videos you just posted.
You think there were serious people in the West who believed the Ghost of Kiev story? Why do you keep brining up this thing, when it was more than obvious that it was a morale increasing fake tale? You expect Ukraine to be 100% truthful during their fight for independence? Interestingly you don't uphold this requirement towards the Russian media and government.
Please show us an independent media outlet in Russia, which has no relations to any oligharcs, siloviki or the wider Russian government.
Russia's credibility problems are far worse than the USA's or Europe's. You cannot even say that it's a war in Russia, what are we even talking about. You cannot protest, all more or less independent outlets had to close. Facebook is now banned in Russia. Do you seriously think that your freedom of press is on the same level?
Sweat blood to prove anything to people who say in my face what I post are lies and propaganda?
I'll rather wait for more solid objections than claiming that videos lack young females and interaction with houses, right after the video which contains both.
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