[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: Eight

[Snowygerry]

Hunting the Koreans...

North Korean military officers 'highly likely' killed in Ukraine, Seoul says

Ukrainian media reports that six North Korean military officers were killed alongside Russian troops in a missile attack near occupied Donetsk are "highly likely" to be true, Seoul's defence minister…

www.france24.com

Ukrainian media have reported that six North Korean military officers were killed in a Ukrainian missile attack on Russian-occupied territory near Donetsk on October 3.

Seoul's defence minister, Kim Yong-hyun, told lawmakers Tuesday that it was "highly likely" that the report was true.

"We assess that the occurrence of casualties among North Korean officers and soldiers in Ukraine is highly likely, considering various circumstances," he said.

 

[Ordnael]

Conscription Is Breaking Ukraine

Ukraine is desperate for men on the front—but Ukrainians are increasingly desperate for a break.

foreignpolicy.com

And yet another video illustration

Spoiler :

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1gi17d1/ua_pov_forced_mobilization_in_a_passenger_bus_in

I think Russia is more desperate, since they just imported tens of thousands of NK troops! I think it's unfair Ukraine can't level that playfield by accessing NATO boots, don't you think?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Ukraine has no allies that are willing to send manpower. This was already established since day one of the invasion.

 

[Snowygerry]

Sadly that's all too true, it would honestly have been easier to involve NATO directly if Ukraine had collapsed and the Russians had advanced to the Polish border, by stopping the Russian army so far East they removed much of the threat for the rest of Europe and also the sense of urgency.

 

[Gedemon]

it begins.

Ukrainian troops have engaged with North Korean units for the 1st time in Russia, an official says

Ukraine’s defense minister says Ukrainian troops have engaged for the first time with North Korean units that were recently deployed to help Russia in the war with its neighbor.

apnews.com

The Ukrainian and North Korean troops engaged in “small-scale” fighting that amounted to the start of Pyongyang’s direct involvement in Europe’s biggest conflict since World War II, Ukraine’s Defense Minister Rustem Umerov told South Korea’s public broadcaster KBS in an interview.

North Korean soldiers are mixed with Russian troops and are misidentified on their uniforms, Umerov was quoted as saying by KBS. That makes it hard to say whether there were any North Korean casualties, he said.

Umerov reportedly said he expects that five North Korean units, each consisting of about 3,000 soldiers, will be deployed to the Kursk area.

Meanwhile, Andrii Kovalenko, the head of the counter-disinformation branch of Ukraine’s Security Council, said “the first North Korean troops have already been shelled, in the Kursk region.”

 

[red_elk]

Ukrainian sources can be safely disregarded on this matter.
They are practically begging about direct NATO involvement and will try to use anything as possible pretext for this.
Lots of fakes in twitter, some are funny, e.g. with badly photoshopped NK passport, etc. Where is FriendlyFire when he's needed to post them?

Though Russian sources don't deny these rumors either.

 

[Farm Boy]

Fat Kim seems to have officially dropped peaceful resolution and emphasized conquest as the principle state goal of the country he leads. If he thinks they need combat experience now, a war of conquest would seem to be the most useful environment for any applicable upcoming plans.

 

[Verbose]

Ukrainian sources can be safely disregarded on this matter.
They are practically begging about direct NATO involvement and will try to use anything as possible pretext for this.
Lots of fakes in twitter, some are funny, e.g. with badly photoshopped NK passport, etc. Where is FriendlyFire when he's needed to post them?

Though Russian sources don't deny these rumors either.

Because it just might be one Russian escalation too far. It's not like someone else attacked Ukraine. Or brought in the North Koreans.

 

[Zardnaar]

Notice that we don't really post Ukrainian sources.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

Ukrainian sources can be safely disregarded on this matter.
They are practically begging about direct NATO involvement and will try to use anything as possible pretext for this.
Lots of fakes in twitter, some are funny, e.g. with badly photoshopped NK passport, etc. Where is FriendlyFire when he's needed to post them?

Though Russian sources don't deny these rumors either.

so it was like 2 weeks ago that North Korean soldiers going to Ukraine was some unsubstantiated rumor...
now that it's true, the idea that they're in actual combat is unproven...
next I assume we'll be arguing that, despite them fighting, their casualty figures (both sustained and inflicted) don't warrant that big of a concern and who really cares...
and on and on.

And by then we'll have forgotten just why it is that North Koreans have to fight Putin's war. That will be a question that no one bothers to ask.

 

[REDY]

Sadly that's all too true, it would honestly have been easier to involve NATO directly if Ukraine had collapsed and the Russians had advanced to the Polish border, by stopping the Russian army so far East they removed much of the threat for the rest of Europe and also the sense of urgency.

I would go further. Countries would be more involved in helping Ukraine if NATO didn’t exist. But because they are part of NATO, they don’t feel as threatened by Russia. This is evident in the Central Europe, where some accuse Zelensky of ingratitude, while others are openly pro-Russian to become useful lapdogs for Chinese interests in EU. They are not even cowards afraid of escalation, they are just corrupted peddlers of fear.

This is why I think that a Trump victory may not be entirely negative. Europe will need greater independence and responsibility to survive. But if they would find it with Harris, it would be even better.

 

[saamohod]

Gideon Rachman, a journalist at the Financial Times:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853838042194235420

 

[Farm Boy]

That's a moment of humanity in an inhuman situation.

 

[red_elk]

so it was like 2 weeks ago that North Korean soldiers going to Ukraine was some unsubstantiated rumor...
now that it's true

Anything changed now that it's become true?

, the idea that they're in actual combat is unproven...

It's unproven unless you can prove it. As I already said I have no problem with it, if it will be confirmed.

So far, it's either usual Western "highly likely" and "usually reliable sources" which have track record of shaping public opinion in majority of cases. Or lying, in simple words.
Or outright Ukrainian propaganda and dehumanization, which you can already see.
Like "gorging on pornography". I bet they will be "stealing toilets" soon, Russians will be "handing out viagra for them" and stuff like that.

 

[Farm Boy]

Strange, that this would be inhuman. Of all things. Considering.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Well, that's Ukraine lost.

 

[red_elk]

Ukraine was going to lose regardless.
Like I said, Trump was more likely to win. Yolanda or what's her name didn't have much chances unfortunately.

 

[Verbose]

No, the Ukranian nation will still continue – it's just that it will do so as a 20+ million or so diaspora inside the EU, while Russia takes over destroyed, mostly depopulated land.

The cost of that is what should make it more than cost-effective to give Ukraine what it needs to remain on Ulkraine.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Ukraine is losing, they have not lost. You can't say Ukraine "was going to lose" until they had lost. You can say Ukraine will lose.

Let's be more specific than they will "lose". After the fighting ceases, what do you think the situation will look like?

 

[red_elk]

No, the Ukranian nation will still continue

Yep, "Ukraine has won because it survided as independent country" narrative will be the next step.
I wrote about this reframing ~6 months ago, it took longer than I expected though.

Ukraine is losing, they have not lost. You can't say Ukraine "was going to lose" until they had lost. You can say Ukraine will lose.

Thank you for correction. Ukraine will lose.