[RD] Russia invades Ukraine: Part II

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: This is the new thread for the Russia-Ukraine war. This is an RD thread, with the expected behaviour requirements. If we have to infract anybody else, it will come with lengthy thread-bans. Do not start any other Russia-Ukraine threads either.

Spoiler for RD definition :

[RD] ("Real Discussion") threads are for mature, civil discussions. [RD] threads are for those who are genuinely interested in a free exchange of ideas, with an open mind. They are not for people who want to troll, make oh-so-witty one-liners, or derail decent discussion. They are not designed for chatting about the weather or for the random-rants type threads. Please do your best to create a strong and informative OP to get the discussion started. [RD] threads will be moderated quite tightly. No trolling. No name-calling. No insults. No ad-hominem attacks. Discuss in a mature manner.

In short - if you're going to discuss the war, be polite, be quiet or go elsewhere.

 

[Joij21]

One month in and the war continues.

 

[REDY]

This is certainly much longer than I have expected. And my feeling like this would started yesterday. Psychologists suggest to not follow news all the day, but I am not able to. There was not more useless and unjust war during my lifetime.

CZ is not that far from Ukraine, and Ukrainians are the biggest minority here (we do not consider Slovaks as minority). It really got me emotionally and I see people around think same. I have lost some neigbours and got much more new ones. People are now much more cohesive and also care much more about situation abroad.

 

[Berzerker]

its a long interview with Aaron Mate, Max Blumenthal and Scott Ritter

Ritter knows a bunch about military systems and Russia's strategy

Ritter said Russia is now telling Europe if they want gas they gotta pay in rubles

edit: bout an hour in Ritter wanders off to Albright and the weapons inspections in Iraq ruined by the CIA

 

[r16]

oh-kay , the final moments of something previous should still be discussed in some useful way . Which probably started about the claim that members of the Azov unit were caught while dressed as women , trying to escape . Which is a golden standart in every war and incidentally to Ukraine's later benefit . Was distracted by a movie so didn't follow the entire flow but the discussion was about Ukranians tying people to a pole for others to beat them . Wouldn't dare call it "useful" but it unites people in some odd way , bolsters their resilience especially in cases when they are facing some "superior" opponent ... The debate then revolving around whether Russians were doing that thing in particular . At this point , some little extra information about me should be useful , as in am some sort of a guest member in some forum where [retired] people talk Turkish only . Never in those fields myself , not even real as the saying goes , ı am just a guest who is allowed to post . So , when ı say one of my forum pals knows Russians in Afghanistan used to take women from villages , rape them and throw them out of helicopters afterwards (and this trick they picked up from Americans in Vietnam) there will be those people questioning . Not whether am a liar , but whether my forum pal was the one who shot that video ... lf ı was ever to make a mistake of thinking Russians were angels , my error would have been corrected long ago ...

as to benefit , it doesn't matter if Ukraine wins or loses . Just a matter of time . If Ukraine loses it is not the fault of Azov , the best fighters . If Ukraine wins , it will take slightly longer but will essentially be the same thing . Only because Azov , the best fighters . Oppression in Ukraine will then just have a new shape .

 

[Farm Boy]

War does that.

 

[Joij21]

oh-kay , the final moments of something previous should still be discussed in some useful way . Which probably started about the claim that members of the Azov unit were caught while dressed as women , trying to escape . Which is a golden standart in every war and incidentally to Ukraine's later benefit . Was distracted by a movie so didn't follow the entire flow but the discussion was about Ukranians tying people to a pole for others to beat them . Wouldn't dare call it "useful" but it unites people in some odd way , bolsters their resilience especially in cases when they are facing some "superior" opponent ... The debate then revolving around whether Russians were doing that thing in particular . At this point , some little extra information about me should be useful , as in am some sort of a guest member in some forum where [retired] people talk Turkish only . Never in those fields myself , not even real as the saying goes , ı am just a guest who is allowed to post . So , when ı say one of my forum pals knows Russians in Afghanistan used to take women from villages , rape them and throw them out of helicopters afterwards (and this trick they picked up from Americans in Vietnam) there will be those people questioning . Not whether am a liar , but whether my forum pal was the one who shot that video ... lf ı was ever to make a mistake of thinking Russians were angels , my error would have been corrected long ago ...

as to benefit , it doesn't matter if Ukraine wins or loses . Just a matter of time . If Ukraine loses it is not the fault of Azov , the best fighters . If Ukraine wins , it will take slightly longer but will essentially be the same thing . Only because Azov , the best fighters . Oppression in Ukraine will then just have a new shape .

R16 I'm curious, which side are you rooting for?

 

[Akka]

Ukrainians have pushed Russians back 15 Km in northeast Kiev, and it seems they are making an encirclement on the northwest.
Another Russian colonel was killed on Mariupol.

 

[Hrothbern]

No lack of useful idiots having their moments of glory

A former San Francisco Bay Area resident facing federal criminal charges from the January 6 attack at the US Capitol has been granted asylum in Belarus, the former Soviet nation’s state media reported on Tuesday.

Evan Neumann, 49, was charged a year ago with assaulting police, including using a metal barricade as a battering ram during the riot last year. In an interview with the Belarus 1 channel that aired last year, he acknowledged being at the building that day but rejected the charges and said he had not hit any officers.

The move comes a month into Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Joe Biden was heading to Europe to talk with allies about possible new sanctions against Russia and more military aid for Ukraine.

“Today I have mixed feelings,” Neumann told the state-owned television network BelTA in the report aired on Tuesday, the Washington Post reported. “I am glad Belarus took care of me. I am upset to find myself in a situation where I have problems in my own country.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/23/us-capitol-riot-belarus-asylum-evan-neumann

 

[Birdjaguar]

An envelopment of significant Russian troops would be, well, both astonishing and excellent. More and more the Russia army looks incapable of anything except artillery bombardment.

 

[Hrothbern]

An envelopment of significant Russian troops would be, well, both astonishing and excellent. More and more the Russia army looks incapable of anything except artillery bombardment.

Though my first thought was: how tricky is it for Ukrainian military to spend resources on that front. IDK. Not enough info. Hope it makes military sense besides the morale effect.

For now Mariupol is key.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Though my first thought was: how tricky is it for Ukrainian military to spend resources on that front. IDK. Not enough info. Hope it makes military sense besides the morale effect.

For now Mariupol is key.

Yes, but...
Win where you can inflict a big loss to break the enemy in one place. A Korsan Pocket win around Kyiv would rub considerable salt into the Russian army wounds. Imagine a pow haul of 10,000 men. Mariupol is already lost for now. But recapture later is not out of the question. The transport requirements to get troops from Kyiv to Mariupol may have to be assembled.

 

[IgrOK[SU]]

I will post a comment that was ready for the previous thread.

Ukraine has a right wing that wanted war in the east.

When? In 2014? How you could "want the war" having no war-ready army?
In 2022? Against the 200 000 Russian troops and nuclear weapons?
Or when?

No one in Ukraine ever considered LPR/DPR as something else than Russian puppet. So no one could say here "I want to fight LPR/DPR, but don't want to fight Russia". It's nonsense.
Ukraine was never ready to defeat Russia in an attack move. No one could ignore this fact, too much of power difference.

Zelensky ran on ending that war and got 73% of the 'eligible' vote.

That's, again, not true. Zelenskyy DID say things in this direction, yes. But he won because he was real young candidate who has nothing to do with the previous elites. He said a lot of populist things. That was only one of them. Also, I'm not sure it was a clear and repeated message. You can read a big article on it here:
https://ru.slovoidilo.ua/2021/07/27...ogo-kak-menyalas-ritorika-prezidenta-donbassu

 

[amadeus]

its a long interview with Aaron Mate, Max Blumenthal and Scott Ritter

Ritter knows a bunch about military systems and Russia's strategy

Ritter said Russia is now telling Europe if they want gas they gotta pay in rubles

edit: bout an hour in Ritter wanders off to Albright and the weapons inspections in Iraq ruined by the CIA

Okay, I’m an hour in. Here’s what I got out of it so far:

• Neither Blumenthal nor Ritter have disclosed their relationship with Russian state-run television
• Ritter is toeing the Putin line on Ukraine, including but not limited to: the extent of the invasion, the purposes thereof, the legitimacy of neo-Nazis, U.S.-Ukrainian cooperation in developing biological weapons
• Ritter alleged that secret operatives cooked up the 1993 attempt to assassinate George Bush to undermine a Clinton admin. attempt at ending UN-Iraq sanctions
• Ritter said Biden was compromised by Hunter’s involvement in Burisma

This is just some of the horsepills that have been spat out here. These clowns have zero credibility.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Okay, I’m an hour in. Here’s what I got out of it so far:

• Neither Blumenthal nor Ritter have disclosed their relationship with Russian state-run television
• Ritter is toeing the Putin line on Ukraine, including but not limited to: the extent of the invasion, the purposes thereof, the legitimacy of neo-Nazis, U.S.-Ukrainian cooperation in developing biological weapons
• Ritter alleged that secret operatives cooked up the 1993 attempt to assassinate George Bush to undermine a Clinton admin. attempt at ending UN-Iraq sanctions
• Ritter said Biden was compromised by Hunter’s involvement in Burisma

This is just some of the horsepills that have been spat out here. These clowns have zero credibility.

Ritter is just spouting his opinions about what he thinks people might have said. His rant just just an I hate the US scree.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Yes, but...
Win where you can inflict a big loss to break the enemy in one place. A Korsan Pocket win around Kyiv would rub considerable salt into the Russian army wounds. Imagine a pow haul of 10,000 men. Mariupol is already lost for now. But recapture later is not out of the question. The transport requirements to get troops from Kyiv to Mariupol may have to be assembled.

Ukraine dosnt have the strength for that, its stratergy now is very small encirclements around Kiev where many of its best forces are located. They been playing this game where Ukraine using its smaller mobile forces to fight against small elements of Russian forces whom outnumber them. Without a huge amount of new Heavy equipment I dont see Ukraine being capable of any large advances especially as Russia is steadly replacing its losses.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I can dream can't I?
But according to Berzerker's video Russia is at a 3:1 disadvantage in army size! Scott Ritter "knows" that the Ukraine has over 600,000 Nato trained troops available. That is proof that Putin never envisioned conquering the Ukraine. All they want to do is destroy all the NATO arms and equipment and the Nazi battalions. Nothing more.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Generally take Ukraine media with a grain of salt.
The announced counterattack was from three weeks ago, and Russia forces still dug inside a part of the town. It seems less an complete encirclement and more of slow grind. Russian forces to the south maybe gettin supplied still as a result of less then full control of the territory West of Kiev and Russia forces still sitting on the West road into Kiev.

In Ukrainian town, reality doesn’t match government boasts of victory over Russian forces
By Tuesday evening, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry had seized on that image and declared that Makariv had been liberated.
From official sources, we received information that a small city, Makariv, and almost all of Irpin are already in the control of Ukrainian soldiers,” Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko told reporters Wednesday.
Tokar, the mayor, said the reality on the ground was different. As of Wednesday, he said, Russian forces were still in control of roughly 15 percent of the town, an area they have held for nearly three weeks with little shifting of the front lines

Even without the propaganda, Makariv, roughly 30 miles west of Kyiv, has in many ways been a success story for Ukrainian forces.
Russian advance has stalled because of the Ukrainian forces’ remarkably successful guerrilla-style tactics.

On Feb. 28, four days after the war started, Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers entered the town but were repelled by members of the Territorial Defense Forces, the mostly civilian militias that have risen up to defend Ukraine. Tokar said they used rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles, shooting from their vehicles.
“Makariv is in between two groups of Russian forces,” said Tokar. “If Ukrainians can hold this town, some of the Russian forces would be cut off from each other.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/23/makariv-propaganda-ukraine/

 

[IgrOK[SU]]

All they want to do is destroy all the NATO arms and equipment and the Nazi battalions. Nothing more.

The longer we fight - the more equipment can come (coming each day for now) and there will be MORE Nazi, than before the war.
You know, promise to kill everyone who thinks Ukraine is a free independent country - breeds nationalism and ultranationalism.

 

[amadeus]

Ritter is just spouting his opinions about what he thinks might have said. His rant just just an I hate the US scree.

I think I wasted an hour of my time watching three people, one who’s cashing in on contrarianism, one superslueth who got outfoxed by Chris Hansen, and one smug-looking sycophant whose journalistic credits are nodding along to whatever else is being said. This is a canard. A total canard.

And one of the interesting angles I’ll say, that has been very effective, is conflating the weight and contents of Russian propaganda versus Ukrainian propaganda; I have no qualms about questioning stuff coming out of the Ukrainian side, but you have to go back to intent and this wholly unnecessary war was organized and instigated by one man. Not NATO. Not the Sierra Club. Not the Soros Fund. Not the Trilateral Commission.

Scott “Puffy” Ritter told us to listen to what Putin has said.

"If they continue to do what they are doing, they are calling into question the future of Ukrainian statehood.”

- V. Putin
​

An ultimatum: surrender without a fight or be conquered.