[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: The 7th Thread Itch; scratch it here!

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These day they're all Americans, you don't live in Ohio, do you ? :p

I'm curious how do you arrive at the conclusion "this war is as much our fault as it was the Russians."

Never heard that from an American, is it a common opinion over there ? Any other US Americans here agree with that ?
 
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I know the war gets a lot of bad vibe, but hey, Ukraine is pretty much a failed state.
Sentence needs explaining.

Because it reads as: sure Russia killed tens of thousands of civilians (bad vibe) but hey, those civilians lived in a failed state, so ....
Getting back under Russia, being partitioned by its neighbours, or even redrawing itself radically... whatever. That might be better than just sticking with the status quo, politically, economically and militarily, for a country like Ukraine.
The milions who fled the area and lost their homes, the people who still live there in Russian oppression are better of than before februari 2022?
 
This guy is like red_elk's subconscious. LoL.
 
Ukraine is just another country the US is going to leave devastated as we go along our merry way.
While geopolitics is complicated, and so on, nothing changes the fact that Putin willingly chose to invade Ukraine. The US didn't. Putin didn't have to. The US didn't force his hand.
 
I read it in Russian news, several major outlets reported about Challenger disaster.
Video came from Ukrainians, admittedly.


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View from the Russian drone, there are also several APCs destroyed, but nobody counts those anymore.

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It is extremely funny to see how excited Russians gets because Ukraine has lost a decades old Challenger tank, that after having lost at least 2300 Russian MBTs, including many of the most modern ones. They are like Luke Skywalker after destroying the Death Star. Aren't conscious about how third wordish they sound apparently.
 
It is extremely funny to see how excited Russians gets because Ukraine has lost a decades old Challenger tank, that after having lost at least 2300 Russian MBTs, including many of the most modern ones. They are like Luke Skywalker after destroying the Death Star. Aren't conscious about how third wordish they sound apparently.

The ratio is heavily in favour of Ukraine, though the West donst have vast stockpiles
Except for the US whom have 2000+ Abrams in stockpiles and outclassed Leopard 1s

Spoiler :

F5SAWh0WMAAM9jf

 
Ukraine is just another country the US is going to leave devastated as we go along our merry way.
Well, then I hope as an American you support sending military aid to Ukraine, increasing it even to make sure they can put all invading Russians into the ground as soon as possible. Then I hope you will support the Ukrainian rebuilding, NATO accession and even donate from your own funds. You know, just to not do what you stated.
 
Ukraine is just another country the US is going to leave devastated as we go along our merry way.
That is the Russian narrative.

Russia 'annexes' a bunch of Ukrainian territory: "Not our fault/US did it/we were forced to....just ignore we gained all this land, we were tricked into this war!"

Russia annexes Crimea: "it wasn't us, just ignore that we gained all this territory."

Putin enemies get assassinated/poisoned: "it wasn't us, just ignore the fact we benefitted from having our enemies eliminated and to show the world we can get anyone, anywhere, it was those other guys who did it".

Shoot down of civilian aircraft I will say was not planned, and was an accident. Still tried blaming everyone else for it.
 
that's not a limited war, have you seen the estimated numbers of casualties ?

it's not Vietnam or Afghanistan.

this is the deadliest war for Russian and Ukrainian soldiers since WWII.



Ukraine is not alone, because, independently of the US backing, if Ukraine fails to win back its territory alone, the Russian war will continue with Europe, and expand.


there was a lot everywhere, and, before the war, most of them weren't even Russia fanboy.

I mean, I'm not, but I did believe the "2nd army in the world" ranking.

The war proved everyone wrong, and when Wagner was still around, the Russian army was the 3rd army in Ukraine, and the 2nd in Russia.



they are still advancing ? they've not since more than one year, except at Bakhmut, at what cost, for what gain ?



and now China is the new labelled 2nd army in the world...

but are you sure they'd done better than Russia in Ukraine ?

I see you're from France.

There's usually a so-called moral high ground when opposing Russian actions in Ukraine.

Except I'm a realist, and a cold one. Seeing that you're from France, perhaps you'll get my point. The pro-Us imperialist camp, or generally just the pro-US or vaguely sympathetic camp, tries to condemn and attack Russia's actions in Ukraine while turning a blind eye to the predatory, destructive face of US imperialism in the last 4 decades or so. It as if Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, coups detat and so on did not matter, throwing napalm on innocent civilians in some Afghan or Vietnamese backwater doesn't matter, but hey only Bucha matters because "muh fweedom, muh democlazy", "muh make mine fweedom".

These people aren't that different from Russia fanboys, because they parrot official propaganda. There's no difference between condoning the record of unjust and immoral US global interventions in the last decades because of "fweedom", and drawing a "Z" and saying that Russia is out there to "denazify" Ukraine.

While Ukraine is pretty much a banana republic and a failed state, and is sliding towards a Weimaresque state where real nazis hold too much power and influence behind and in the actual political scene, I don't believe either in "Z" or these liberal imperialists who keep saying "hey we're in to throw bombs and saction Putin because of fweedom and dumbcrazy". Lol.

Like I said, I don't believe in either.

As for the Russian Army, I never believed in it. It is big, but not rather remarkable. The Russians have many modern weapons systems, like the S-400 and S-500, the AK rifles, the Armata tank, and so on; these are fearsome, but they rather make the core and not the bulk of their arsenal. The truth is that the Russian army suffers from poor logistics, rampant corruption, incompetent leadership, obsolete tactical doctrines and has still a core of mostly obsolete Soviet-era equipment pretty much like the Ukrainian army.

They can keep up in quantity/quality terms with making interventions in their own backyard, but I never bought into that stuff they were supposed to be "second in the world".

Again these are my opinions, my outlook, my research. I'm not a fanboy of any type.

As for the Russian advance, well, Kherson, Bakhmut, were "advances". Just like the French Army technically "advanced" a couple of square kilometers in Verdun, at an obscene cost. But these are about the same rate.

As for the Chinese Army, if we would be talking of Mao's Chinese Army, well, it wasn't a good thing to start with. But now the Chinese are rapidly modernizing, developing a professional NCO corps, developing whole new weapon systems in bulk. The Chinese Army is both fearsome in terms of quantity and manpower, and is now increasingly becoming the most modern army in the world in qualitative and technological terms. That's why they are fearsome. But I don't know their official ranking.
 
While Ukraine is pretty much a banana republic and a failed state, and is sliding towards a Weimaresque state where real nazis hold too much power and influence behind
... ,led by a Russian-speaking Jewish comedian.

Also you have likely missed the events with Prigozhin showdown a month ago and his recent shotdown. Otherwise you'd definitely attach your "failed state" babble to the correct country.
 
... ,led by a Russian-speaking Jewish comedian.

Also you have likely missed the events with Prigozhin showdown a month ago and his recent shotdown. Otherwise you'd definitely attach your "failed state" babble to the correct country.

Zelensky does not represent the entire Ukrainian voting bloc or the more radical parties in that country. In fact, he looks a lot like some of these radical Weimar-era Jews who wanted to ally themselves with radical German nationalists and ignored the Nazis, because they were too blinded by their own chauvinism to begin with.

Zelensky has done the same and has done nothing to stop the radicalization of Ukrainian politics, or the appointment of truly radical neo-nazi ministers.

Similarly, many rights groups have demanded Israel to stop arming Ukrainian neo-nazis. They're doing so out of cold blooded Macchiavelianism, nothing else.

The rise of militant paramilitary and militia groups like Azov and Pravy Sektor has long been a problem because of that.



These links have nothing to do with Ru propaganda, but they research and expose how pro-Ukraine and even anti-Putin radicals have links with American neonazis and are actively trying to spin the pro-Ukraine camp into a radical neo-nazi direction.
 
These links have nothing to do with Ru propaganda, but they research and expose how pro-Ukraine and even anti-Putin radicals have links with American neonazis and are actively trying to spin the pro-Ukraine camp into a radical neo-nazi direction.
What's your stance on Russian links to European and American far right fringe groups?

Also, why are we debating the same stuff every time a completely new, few day aged account joins with pro-Russian views? I mean, it keeps the thread rolling but still it is a waste of time.
 
What's your stance on Russian links to European and American far right fringe groups?

Nazism is immoral whether it is Russians, Ukrainians, Americans doing it. That said, it works both ways. But like I said, I'm far far away from this mess so I want to distance myself fully from all of this personally.
 
Nazism is immoral whether it is Russians, Ukrainians, Americans doing it. That said, it works both ways. But like I said, I'm far far away from this mess so I want to distance myself fully from all of this personally.
By taking a firmly anti-Ukrainian stance and by avoiding criticizing Russia, you don't really distance yourself in this thread.
 
What's your stance on Russian links to European and American far right fringe groups?

Also, why are we debating the same stuff every time a completely new, few day aged account joins with pro-Russian views? I mean, it keeps the thread rolling but still it is a waste of time.
Well...

Yes yes we know, we've had a long string of your clones with the same arguments and the same reasonings and the same false concerns and the same attempt at presenting themselves as the reasonable man while regurgitating the Kremlin propaganda line.
Ask for a new script, this one is getting stale.

I was speaking of Russia spending so much in bots spamming propaganda, and you might have feel the significant increase recently.
Well, seems it was kinda on-point :


Guess we'll keep seeing new clones of honest-to-God Russian and non-Russian citizens that coincidentally all express carbon-copy opinions with carbon-copy arguments and reasonings.

Let's see... I can't help but notice some sort of rotation of pro-Russian posters, who pop up, repeat the same dance of the usual BS, then after a time disappear and another clone pop again to do the same.
Guess it's your turn ?

When I say there is a feeling of déjà vu...
 

Ukraine war: 16 killed in missile attack on market town​

At least 16 people have been killed in a missile attack on the Ukrainian city of Kostiantynivka.
President Volodymyr Zelensky said those killed were "people who did nothing wrong" - and warned the death toll could increase.
Kostiantynivka, in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region, is near the front line.
"This Russian evil must be defeated as soon as possible," Mr Zelensky added. The authorities in Moscow are yet to comment on the claims.

The Ukrainian president said that a market, shops and a pharmacy had been hit in the eastern city, which sits close to the battlefield.
Videos circulating on social media appear to show the moment of the explosion and its graphic aftermath.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66731927
 
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