[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: The 7th Thread Itch; scratch it here!

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

LOL it's the pro-Ukrainian camp here that is ridiculous. Painting Ukrainian neo-nazis as "heroes", Zelensky as a sort of martyr when the guy is just a maniac, a stooge, and a cocaine addict who ruined his own country. Also propping up a banana republic and failed state like Ukraine in exaggeration, because "muh Russia is evil", "muh Ukraine should follow the Washington diktat". This is nothing else than a mirror screen for supporting the claims of US imperialism and US hegemonic ambitions in the former Soviet backyard, disguised as always as a false humanitarian and pseudo-empathetic claim about the so-called "freedom" of the nations of this region.

I'm not condoning all of Russia's actions in these areas, but the expansion of NATO and US interventionism are just as much of a bogeyman for the Eastern Europe as is the acts of aggression conducted by Putin. The whole area needs a new, Titoesque, "non-aligned" outlook, in the same way the historical Tito despised both Washington and Moscow. But that's just my own two cents.

Either way, all of this ridiculous talk about "freedom fighting" Ukrainians and US-backed nazi militias is tosh, and is a smokescreen for US geopolitical ambitions in the area. Backing some third world style dictators against a Communist power in the heydays of the Cold War wasn't that different from the gambit of Ukraine supporters, anyway, who're into turning Bananaland into a bulwark of "freedom" because they don't want a true opponent to US hegemony.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Also let me add: even if the Russian state is overdoing itself in Ukraine, inasmuch as the Russian state, like the Chinese, represent in and of themselves, on their own and sticking to their own little places a consistent opposition to US unipolarism and US ambitions, that's good and moral in the geopolitic sense.

 

[saamohod]

Zelensky does not represent the entire Ukrainian voting bloc

Zelensky represents the vast majority of ordinary Ukrainians who voted for him. That's all that matters. Far-right parties have never earned more that 3% of something like that.
The narrative that Ukraine is a Nazi country is a 100% Russian narrative since 2014. And you seem to have swallowed it, hook, line and sinker. But since you consider yourself a realist, that's something expected. The term "realist" has become barely distinguishable from "conspiracy nutcase" nowadays. Nothing personal, just an observation.

Zelensky has done the same and has done nothing to stop the radicalization of Ukrainian politics

To stop the "radicalization of Ukrainian politics" only one thing needed to be done: for Russia to quit behaving like a rabid dog and leave us alone. As long as they are intent on destroying our country, identity and people, the "radicalization" will keep going.

The rise of militant paramilitary and militia groups like Azov and Pravy Sektor has long been a problem because of that.

It's never been a problem for Ukraine though, much less a problem for American realists. Just like any country (Russia, USA etc) we utilized those who were willing to fight and to die defending their land in an emergency, when we virtually had no army (why do you need an army when nobody is going to invade, wink-wink Europe). No need explaining that far-right folk are the best soldier material. However they never constituted the majority of the fighting force, especially today.

 

[red_elk]

LOL it's the pro-Ukrainian camp here that is ridiculous. Painting Ukrainian neo-nazis as "heroes", Zelensky as a sort of martyr when the guy is just a maniac, a stooge, and a cocaine addict who ruined his own country. Also propping up a banana republic and failed state like Ukraine in exaggeration, because "muh Russia is evil", "muh Ukraine should follow the Washington diktat". This is nothing else than a mirror screen for supporting the claims of US imperialism and US hegemonic ambitions in the former Soviet backyard, disguised as always as a false humanitarian and pseudo-empathetic claim about the so-called "freedom" of the nations of this region.

Pretty sure they'll accuse you in being bot paid by Russian government in no time.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Pretty sure they'll accuse you in being bot paid by Russian government in no time.

No, I'm actually a Civ3 hobby player and I live in Czech Republic, which is a country with tons of Russophobia and pretty much all the reasons to hate Russia for its past. I speak only for myself.

The problem with this forum is that it is awash with pro-US propaganda and an Americentric outlook. It is not hard to see what is the greediest and cruelest imperial power, but then, when it comes to propaganda, let's all put the Mobutus Sese Sekos, the Idi Amins, the Videlas, the Pinochets back in track to save the world from "Communism" and to ensure there's no real oppositionto US imperialism. Lol, yeah.

 

[saamohod]

@MPorciusCatoCivver
Another important thing.
You must be equally outraged by the amount of far-right Russian men who are part of the invading force in Ukraine. You should be enraged! Or is there a blind-spot when it comes to noticing Russian nazis in this war, those who are obsessed with eradicating anything Ukrainian? A blind spot the size of Russia probably?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Yes, yes. Just one Challenger. Don't be salty

Wow, you answered. I understand Those 2300+ tanks (plus crews) in low earth orbit must really hurt but try to keep your composure man.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

@MPorciusCatoCivver
Another important thing.
You must be equally outraged by the amount of far-right Russian men who are part of the invading force in Ukraine. You should be enraged! Or is there a blind-spot when it comes to noticing Russian nazis in this war, those who are obsessed with eradicating anything Ukrainian? A blind spot the size of Russia probably?

Really, IRL, and on my own, I'm far far away from all this crap and I really want the max distance but don't ever think about the issue. I don't think about what Ukrainian or Russian nazis want, and I just want to stay away from them. It's the best thing possible. That's all.

 

[saamohod]

And back to the news in the post-truth Russia

"June 2023: Zelensky is not Jewish
Sept 2023: Zelesnky now is Jewish
Zelensky both is and is not Jewish as required. The past changes so quickly you have no idea what will happen yesterday."

That feeling when the fuhrer of your country is a nutcase fixated on ethnicity.

 

[red_elk]

Wow, you answered. I understand Those 2300+ tanks (plus crews) in low earth orbit must really hurt but try to keep your composure man.

Crispy, smoky Challenger

 

[Broken_Erika]

Well, the crew survived, also it's the second challenger tank destroyed, the first was knocked out by friendly fire in Basra, Iraq in 2003

25 March 2003: A friendly fire ("blue-on-blue") incident in Basra in which one Challenger 2 of the Black Watch Battlegroup (2nd Royal Tank Regiment) mistakenly engaged another Challenger 2 of the Queen's Royal Lancers after detecting what was believed to be an enemy flanking manoeuvre on thermal equipment. The attacking tank's second HESH round hit the open commander's hatch lid of the QRL tank sending hot fragments into the turret, killing two crew members. The hit caused a fire that eventually ignited the stowed ammunition, destroying the tank. This was the first Challenger 2 to be destroyed on operations.[63][64][65]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2#Basra_2003

 

[saamohod]

No, I'm actually a Civ3 hobby player and I live in Czech Republic, which is a country with tons of Russophobia

Ever asked yourself why would they have so much russophobia? I'm no Czech nor a historian, but I know what happened there in 1968 for example.
You can always move back to Brazil, a country so distant from Russia that it quite reasonably has zero russophobia. Or you could even upgrade yourself and move straight to Russia to fully indulge in West hatred. Just make sure you are not a black/dark Brazilian.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Crispy, smoky Challenger

Ummm... you would do better thinking on the thousands of crispy smoky Russians killed in those tracked coffins you call tanks.

 

[red_elk]

Ummm... you would do better thinking on the thousands of crispy smoky Russians killed in those tracked coffins you call tanks.

Challenger has failed the challenge

 

[saamohod]

Ukraine war: 16 killed in missile attack on market town​

At least 16 people have been killed in a missile attack on the Ukrainian city of Kostiantynivka.
President Volodymyr Zelensky said those killed were "people who did nothing wrong" - and warned the death toll could increase.
Kostiantynivka, in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region, is near the front line.
"This Russian evil must be defeated as soon as possible," Mr Zelensky added. The authorities in Moscow are yet to comment on the claims.

The Ukrainian president said that a market, shops and a pharmacy had been hit in the eastern city, which sits close to the battlefield.
Videos circulating on social media appear to show the moment of the explosion and its graphic aftermath.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66731927

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699408130222813676

Damn evil Americans, stop bombing Ukrainian civilians

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Challenger has failed the challenge

New improvement for Russian tanks:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699197068584104380

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699402823551582247

'A legal point of view'. That is a good one. I wonder who cares about Russian legal point of view. Any asset which, under UK's legal point of view of course, is considered related to Wagner can be seized in advance. Basically any Russian asset I guess.

 

[Remorseless1]

LOL it's the pro-Ukrainian camp here that is ridiculous. Painting Ukrainian neo-nazis as "heroes", Zelensky as a sort of martyr when the guy is just a maniac, a stooge, and a cocaine addict who ruined his own country. Also propping up a banana republic and failed state like Ukraine in exaggeration, because "muh Russia is evil", "muh Ukraine should follow the Washington diktat". This is nothing else than a mirror screen for supporting the claims of US imperialism and US hegemonic ambitions in the former Soviet backyard, disguised as always as a false humanitarian and pseudo-empathetic claim about the so-called "freedom" of the nations of this region.

I'm not condoning all of Russia's actions in these areas, but the expansion of NATO and US interventionism are just as much of a bogeyman for the Eastern Europe as is the acts of aggression conducted by Putin. The whole area needs a new, Titoesque, "non-aligned" outlook, in the same way the historical Tito despised both Washington and Moscow. But that's just my own two cents.

Either way, all of this ridiculous talk about "freedom fighting" Ukrainians and US-backed nazi militias is tosh, and is a smokescreen for US geopolitical ambitions in the area. Backing some third world style dictators against a Communist power in the heydays of the Cold War wasn't that different from the gambit of Ukraine supporters, anyway, who're into turning Bananaland into a bulwark of "freedom" because they don't want a true opponent to US hegemony.

Vladimir is going to meet with Kim Jong Un of North Korea, a fascist autocrat who operates hundreds of concentration camps. So much for being opposed to Nazis.

This Nazi has what Vladimir needs to save his regime -- artillery shells. Obviously the Russian manufacturing base is having trouble producing enough shells. Cold War economies always encounter that issue. But the need is apparently crucial. The ISW is apparently indicating Russian commanders are complaining about poor counter battery gear, which means the Russians are having to fire 10 rounds where one would do with adequate country battery systems.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Ever asked yourself why would they have so much russophobia? I'm no Czech nor a historian, but I know what happened there in 1968 for example.
You can always move back to Brazil, a country so distant from Russia that it quite reasonably has zero russophobia. Or you could even upgrade yourself and move straight to Russia to fully indulge in West hatred. Just make sure you are not a black/dark Brazilian.

There are no blameless players in the current geopolitical mess.

That said, there are two things about the current reality which I believe: a) Ukraine was a sort of bureaucratic internal division from within th old Tzarist Empire. The Ukrainian identity has always been tied up historically to the Russian identity. That is speaking in historical and cultural terms. So much that by declaring its independence all of sudden back in 1989, it was like trying to declare Montana or Texas an independent state of the US. That's not gonna cut it, although the Texans have a history of irredentism.

But so what. Ukraine national identity and anti-Russian feeling wasn't that strong in 1989, because they were pretty much the same country up to them. Ukraine could function as an independent country, but it became a failed state; I know plenty of people who emigrated from there, and said they didn't regret it. One of these worked as a private teacher of Russian for me.

Ukraine became a sort of agricultural, backwater, corrupt, bankrupt country with no real economic growth (just economic shrinkage) and failed institutions. A nearly failed state, kept floating strenuously and thinly as if by a miracle. Well that speaks against it.

With that said, the problem and my deepest concern is how the US spins the anti-Russian narrrative in the broad geopolitical sense. As if they just needed some sort of ongoing justification for asserting their hegemony in the former Soviet backyard, just like they used (nonexistent) WMD's as a justification against Saddam.

There's no clearcut solution to the Ukraine crisis. The whole area just looks like Somalia or Ethiopia to me, and the levels of economic misery and backwardness are the same. But it's clear the US is stepping because they just want, they're just itching, to cut Russia's geopolitical leg and make sure everybody steps into their line.


=================

As for myself, I'm a light skinned, round faced person. I have Czech ancestry and citizenship by ancestry. That's all I have to say. That's enough for myself, and for the sort of cultural milieu of Visegrad countries.

 

[Civinator]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699197068584104380

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699402823551582247

erm... these are only spare tires. A Russian bomber has so many tires - you know (the same for tanks).

 

[keli]

Pretty sure they'll accuse you in being bot paid by Russian government in no time.

It's even worse if he is not paid. Jesus, coming to a Ukraine war thread and trying to justify the Russian (and anti-European) invasion, meanwhile living "assumedly" in the EU. We had one Kyriakos yes, but what about a second?

Plus he brings the same tropes as you do. He criticizes Ukraine, then when called out about Russia he says he would like to stay far away and not make a stance in the topic. The same when you want Russian troops to kill Ukrainians, want Russia to win the war but you yourself don't support the war and are neutral.