[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: The 7th Thread Itch; scratch it here!

[Thorgalaeg]

He hasn't said such thing. In fact the stupid opinions you can occasionally find in western media birdjaguar is probably talking about are very similar to the stupid official 'opinion' you can find in 100% of the Russian state-controlled media which you swallow without question in a daily basis.

Moderator Action: I fixed that for you. Birdjaguar

 

[red_elk]

He hasn't said such thing. In fact the stupid opinions you can occasionally find in western media birdjaguar is probably talking about are very similar to the stupid official 'opinion' you can find in 100% of the Russian state-controlled media which you swallow without question in a daily basis.

Nope, unlike you I don't swallow information from any side without questions.

Moderator Action: I fixed that for you. Birdjaguar.

 

[red_elk]

More about recent shifts in Eastern Europe's support to Ukraine:

Europe blinks amid calls to stop backing Ukraine​

On its other eastern front, Kyiv’s hawkish allies are going wobbly.

BRUSSELS — Russian President Vladimir Putin has made little secret of his plan to keep up the pressure on Ukraine until Western resolve breaks. More than 500 days into his war of aggression, he now has reason to believe things are working out the way he hoped, even if events are not playing out how he might have imagined.

Governments in Poland, Estonia, Slovakia and others in Central and Eastern Europe have been among Kyiv’s staunchest allies since the first day of Russia’s full-scale invasion. Beyond sending weapons and welcoming millions of Ukrainian refugees, they have been Ukraine’s loudest advocates in the West, pushing for a tough line against Moscow in the face of reluctance from countries like France and Germany.

But as the leaders of some of these ride-or-die allies face reelection battles or other domestic challenges, and governments get nervous about the impact of Ukraine one day joining the European Union, that support is starting to waver.

The most striking example is Poland, whose Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki announced on Wednesday that he would stop delivering new weapons to Ukraine. The statement marked a stunning escalation in a dispute between Kyiv and its closest EU neighbor over grain shipments Warsaw claims are undercutting production from Polish farmers ahead of a parliamentary election on October 15.

“Ukraine realizes that in the last months, they’re not bordering Poland, they’re bordering Polish elections,” said Ivan Krastev, chair of the Centre for Liberal Strategies in Sofia, Bulgaria. So for now, “the votes of a hundred thousand Polish farmers are more important for the government than what is going to be the cost for Ukraine. And we’re going to see this happening in many places,” he added.

Morawiecki is facing a tough challenge from Donald Tusk, a former prime minister who has also served as president of the European Council. As part of his electoral strategy, the prime minister is courting supporters of the far-right Confederation Party, which opposes aid for Ukraine.

“We are no longer transferring weapons to Ukraine, because we are now arming Poland with more modern weapons,” Morawiecki said in an appearance on Polish television channel Polsat.

Europe blinks amid calls to stop backing Ukraine

On its other eastern front, Kyiv’s hawkish allies are going wobbly.

www.politico.eu

 

[Gorbles]

More about recent shifts in Eastern Europe's support to Ukraine:

Europe blinks amid calls to stop backing Ukraine​

On its other eastern front, Kyiv’s hawkish allies are going wobbly.

BRUSSELS — Russian President Vladimir Putin has made little secret of his plan to keep up the pressure on Ukraine until Western resolve breaks. More than 500 days into his war of aggression, he now has reason to believe things are working out the way he hoped, even if events are not playing out how he might have imagined.

Governments in Poland, Estonia, Slovakia and others in Central and Eastern Europe have been among Kyiv’s staunchest allies since the first day of Russia’s full-scale invasion. Beyond sending weapons and welcoming millions of Ukrainian refugees, they have been Ukraine’s loudest advocates in the West, pushing for a tough line against Moscow in the face of reluctance from countries like France and Germany.

But as the leaders of some of these ride-or-die allies face reelection battles or other domestic challenges, and governments get nervous about the impact of Ukraine one day joining the European Union, that support is starting to waver.

The most striking example is Poland, whose Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki announced on Wednesday that he would stop delivering new weapons to Ukraine. The statement marked a stunning escalation in a dispute between Kyiv and its closest EU neighbor over grain shipments Warsaw claims are undercutting production from Polish farmers ahead of a parliamentary election on October 15.

“Ukraine realizes that in the last months, they’re not bordering Poland, they’re bordering Polish elections,” said Ivan Krastev, chair of the Centre for Liberal Strategies in Sofia, Bulgaria. So for now, “the votes of a hundred thousand Polish farmers are more important for the government than what is going to be the cost for Ukraine. And we’re going to see this happening in many places,” he added.

Morawiecki is facing a tough challenge from Donald Tusk, a former prime minister who has also served as president of the European Council. As part of his electoral strategy, the prime minister is courting supporters of the far-right Confederation Party, which opposes aid for Ukraine.

“We are no longer transferring weapons to Ukraine, because we are now arming Poland with more modern weapons,” Morawiecki said in an appearance on Polish television channel Polsat.

Europe blinks amid calls to stop backing Ukraine

On its other eastern front, Kyiv’s hawkish allies are going wobbly.

www.politico.eu

Isn't this a rehash of the thing you just linked? Do you have anything of your own to add, beyond the convenience of relying on Western media when it benefits you?

 

[amadeus]

I’m a little confused about this grain kerfuffle, because a month ago I was hearing the dire need for Ukraine to export its grain through the Black Sea? I’m not sure why the grain couldn’t just be routed to Polish ports and then re-exported, or Polish grain going to Ukraine’s customers, or why the EU doesn’t step in with a subsidy as they do for their other members.

 

[emzie]

I’m a little confused about this grain kerfuffle, because a month ago I was hearing the dire need for Ukraine to export its grain through the Black Sea? I’m not sure why the grain couldn’t just be routed to Polish ports and then re-exported, or Polish grain going to Ukraine’s customers, or why the EU doesn’t step in with a subsidy as they do for their other members.

Ukranian grain is cheaper and undercuts local growers.

 

[red_elk]

I’m a little confused about this grain kerfuffle, because a month ago I was hearing the dire need for Ukraine to export its grain through the Black Sea? I’m not sure why the grain couldn’t just be routed to Polish ports and then re-exported, or Polish grain going to Ukraine’s customers, or why the EU doesn’t step in with a subsidy as they do for their other members.

From what I read, the kerfuffle is about importing grain and selling it in Poland. Re-export wasn't blocked.

 

[Snowygerry]

The assumption is the grain, or at least some of it, is sold at the high EU prices in Poland, instead of the much lower export prices.

Obviously that undercuts the Polish farmers, they are trying to do the same. The solution is imho. to plant something else next year.

It's also a bit suspicious since this gives both Zelelnsky and the Polish government the opportunity to profile themselves towards their respective support base, a political win-win,

for the moment there is not much for the Poles to send anyway, the waiting is for F16s and Tanks and AFCs to be prepared for the East Front, and ofcourse ammo, parts and replacements can only be send as fast they are produced.

 

[red_elk]

Ukrainian "freedom fighter" given standing ovation in Canadian parliament, turned out to be a Waffen-SS veteran.

TORONTO (AP) — The speaker of Canada’s House of Commons apologized Sunday for recognizing a man who fought for a Nazi military unit during World War II.

Just after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivered an address in the House of Commons on Friday, Canadian lawmakers gave 98-year-old Yaroslav Hunka a standing ovation when Speaker Anthony Rota drew attention to him. Rota introduced Hunka as a war hero who fought for the First Ukrainian Division.
<..>
The First Ukrainian Division was also known as the Waffen-SS Galicia Division or the SS 14th Waffen Division, a voluntary unit that was under the command of the Nazis.

The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies issued a statement Sunday saying the division “was responsible for the mass murder of innocent civilians with a level of brutality and malice that is unimaginable.”

“An apology is owed to every Holocaust survivor and veteran of the Second World War who fought the Nazis, and an explanation must be provided as to how this individual entered the hallowed halls of Canadian Parliament and received recognition from the Speaker of the House and a standing ovation,” the statement said.

B’nai Brith Canada’s CEO, Michael Mostyn, said it was outrageous that Parliament honored a former member of a Nazi unit, saying Ukrainian “ultra-nationalist ideologues” who volunteered for the Galicia Division “dreamed of an ethnically homogenous Ukrainian state and endorsed the idea of ethnic cleansing.”

Leader of Canada's House of Commons apologizes for honoring man who fought for Nazis

The speaker of Canada’s House of Commons is apologizing for recognizing in Parliament a man who fought for a Nazi military unit during World War II.

apnews.com

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Ukrainian "freedom fighter" given standing ovation in Canadian parliament, turned out to be a Waffen-SS veteran.

Leader of Canada's House of Commons apologizes for honoring man who fought for Nazis

The speaker of Canada’s House of Commons is apologizing for recognizing in Parliament a man who fought for a Nazi military unit during World War II.

apnews.com

It's like what I've aways been defending in here. The West has no moral high ground in Ukraine because the West, Israel, even Canada to a lesser extent is funding neo nazi and extremist forces, sometimes out of sheer alienation as exemplified by this case.

It's the same rationale as, "hey, mr. Daladier, look at that moustache guy in Berlin. He wants to kill the Soviet Union, so let's appease him and give him everything he wants in the hopes he will become a bulwark and a meat shield against the red hordes".

Or, "hey, Communists pose a threat to all of us. We defeated the wrong enemy" (Patton) or "hey, I guess the USSR is the real enemy, so let's side with this thing called Nazi Germany to defend civilization from the red hordes".

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Bickering posts removed. Back to news please.

 

[Gorbles]

Ukrainian "freedom fighter" given standing ovation in Canadian parliament, turned out to be a Waffen-SS veteran.

Leader of Canada's House of Commons apologizes for honoring man who fought for Nazis

The speaker of Canada’s House of Commons is apologizing for recognizing in Parliament a man who fought for a Nazi military unit during World War II.

apnews.com

I'm glad the speaker apologised for such a horrendous gaffe, and here's hoping for the bare minimum of vetting candidates next time anything like this happens.

 

[red_elk]

It's like what I've aways been defending in here. The West has no moral high ground in Ukraine because the West, Israel, even Canada to a lesser extent is funding neo nazi and extremist forces, sometimes out of sheer alienation as exemplified by this case.

It's the same rationale as, "hey, mr. Daladier, look at that moustache guy in Berlin. He wants to kill the Soviet Union, so let's appease him and give him everything he wants in the hopes he will become a bulwark and a meat shield against the red hordes".

Or, "hey, Communists pose a threat to all of us. We defeated the wrong enemy" (Patton) or "hey, I guess the USSR is the real enemy, so let's side with this thing called Nazi Germany to defend civilization from the red hordes".

Credit where credit is due, Canadian speaker apologized for it and he apparently didn't know who this individual was.
No comments from Ukrainian officials though, but that's very much expected.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

From the Nytimes, one of the biggest mouthpieces of Atlanticist, pro-NATO media ever, hardly ever sympathetic to non-aligned countries or Russia for the matter.

Troop Deaths and Injuries in Ukraine War Near 500,000, U.S. Officials Say

Ukraine and Russia have lost a staggering number of troops as Kyiv’s counteroffensive drags on. A lack of rapid medical care has added to the toll.

www.nytimes.com

The total number of Ukrainian and Russian troops killed or wounded since the war in Ukraine began 18 months ago is nearing 500,000, U.S. officials said, a staggering toll as Russia assaults its next-door neighbor and tries to seize more territory.
The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kyiv does not disclose official figures. But they said the slaughter intensified this year in eastern Ukraine and has continued at a steady clip as a nearly three-month-old counteroffensive drags on.
Russia’s military casualties, the officials said, are approaching 300,000. The number includes as many as 120,000 deaths and 170,000 to 180,000 injured troops. The Russian numbers dwarf the Ukrainian figures, which the officials put at close to 70,000 killed and 100,000 to 120,000 wounded.
But Russians outnumber Ukrainians on the battlefield almost three to one, and Russia has a larger population from which to replenish its ranks.

Ukraine has around 500,000 troops, including active-duty, reserve and paramilitary troops, according to analysts. By contrast, Russia has almost triple that number, with 1,330,000 active-duty, reserve and paramilitary troops — most of the latter from the Wagner Group.
The Biden administration’s last public estimate of casualties came in November, when Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that more than 100,000 troops on each side had been killed or wounded since the war began in February 2022. At the time, officials said privately that the numbers were closer to 120,000 killed and wounded.

So let's get the facts straight: KIA casualties for both sides are 120k, Russia perhaps has 60-80k more permanent MIA losses.

Russia has 3:1 force ratio in all of Ukraine. They have not mobilized, they have not committed their army fully.

Ukraine has managed to retake some shell cratered wastelands, and perhaps advanced some kilometers - Verdun style btw - at the cost of 4-5 men per sq mile.

It's still not "Ukrainian victory". This thing is called stalemate and there was such a big deal in WW1 or Vietnam. Like I said, people counting some Ukrainian missile victories here and there are missing the big strategic picture, while even the Pentagon knows the big picture isn't that great in the first place.

The thing is that if we count out a few dated ships and some backward villages like Ah-whatever-Idon't know or parts of Bakhmut, there has been little strategic advance by Ukraine since April or so.

It still remains to be seen, moral judgments aside, if what I said about Ukraine's force - which is now getting less and less funded by Russia's traditional enemies - can really defeat the Russians or obtain any ignificant strategic victory.

In the big picture, time's on Putin's side. And the West knows it, also Putin knows it all too well.

 

[lymond]

I'm glad the speaker apologised for such a horrendous gaffe, and here's hoping for the bare minimum of vetting candidates next time anything like this happens.

Also, it should be noted that the gaffe had absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine or Zelensky.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's like what I've aways been defending in here. The West has no moral high ground in Ukraine because the West, Israel, even Canada to a lesser extent is funding neo nazi and extremist forces, sometimes out of sheer alienation as exemplified by this case.

"The West" was funding Yaroslav Hunka?

Have you been eating blue cheese again?

 

[Yeekim]

"Ukrainian “ultra-nationalist ideologues” who volunteered for the Galicia Division “dreamed of an ethnically homogenous Ukrainian state and endorsed the idea of ethnic cleansing.”"

Let's hope Canada shall apply same standards to people associated with government and army that is practicing ethnic cleansing in Ukraine today.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

I would like to add the Russians are great this. In using time and attrition, and trading bodies and space for strategy. The strategic big picture, as opposed to the tactical one, where the USSR style sucked historically.

Putin knows that. He knows he can keep trading warm bodies for space and keep the numerical advantage. He knows he can stalemate the Ukrainians at the moment. In the end, if it continues like this - an attrition grinding conflict - then time is on the Russian side. Inevitably.

We'll see where this leads. And I don't care about it, I'm no Russia fanboy, but if Zelensky ever loses Western support due to "I'm tired of backing you and seeing nothing", he'll be forced to sue for peace. That's where it effectively ends, btw.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You do remember that Russia invaded Ukraine, right?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Ukraine map reveals counteroffensive progress amid Verbove breakthrough

The Institute for the Studies of War confirmed that Ukrainian troops "have broken through Russian field fortifications west of Verbove."

www.newsweek.com

Four months into its counteroffensive, Ukrainian forces are making progress on the southern front after breaking through in Verbove earlier this week, as shown by the latest maps shared by the Institute for the Studies of War (ISW).

Verbove is a village in the Zaporizhzhia oblast, a few miles east of Robotyne, which was captured by Ukrainian troops on August 28. It is on the path towards Tokmak, which Ukrainian General Oleksandr Tarnavsky—who is leading Kyiv's troops on the southern front line—described to CNN as "the minimum goal" of the country's campaign.

In its latest update on the situation on the front line, the ISW confirmed that Ukrainian troops "have broken through Russian field fortifications west of Verbove," though it specifies that these are not the "final defensive line in Russia's defense in depth in western Zaporizhzhia oblast."

Commercial satellite images back Tarnavsky's statement, showing that Ukrainian forces have brought heavy equipment closer to Verbove in the past few days, according to the ISW.