[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: War News Thread: Round 6

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Hersh's story is getting picked apart.

Those are a lot of good points in there.
Guess I got snookered. :o

I wonder who actually blew up the pipelines?
 
He doesn't conclude that NATO forces were not behind it, however. Some of Hersh's story does sound weird, as described, however.
Like camouflaging a bomb on the ocean floor (why?), and detonating it with a sonar buoy dropped from an airplane (why?).
Lots of other tech details I'm not smart enough to know, though.
 
Meanwhile, Rusian subs were in the area around the time of the explosion, or something....
 
occam's razor would suggest a torpedo strike, but I guess someone would have to go down there and do some forensics.

Three torpedo strikes ?
Far cheaper, easier and less debris just to use divers and plant timed explosives.
Rather then you know Russian submarine, kursking itself or running aground, or smoking accident as one dose.
 
Hmm, how this will even work? No "arming Ukraine" - more Ukrainian cities burned to dust. How this can stop war?

RUSSIA IS ATTACKING RIGHT NOW, WTH
They say peace, mean capitulation, but it has a bad ring to it.
 
Russian propaganda is already dreaming about the next winter. That's when Europe is gonna freeze for sure.

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Hmm, how this will even work? No "arming Ukraine" - more Ukrainian cities burned to dust. How this can stop war?
By pushing both sides to negotiations?
Meanwhile, Rusian subs were in the area around the time of the explosion, or something....
Russia spent two years trying to finish the pipeline despite US sanctions which forced EU companies to withdraw from the project.
Spent several billions of dollars on it.
Had to deploy Navy ships in the area, to protect it from Polish fishing boats on collision course with "engine problems" and other funny business.
Finally, to turn off gas flow, could simply turn the valve.

Who could sabotage the pipeline? Well, of course "Russian subs were in the area", must be them Ruskies!
 
Wasn't Russia IMO. It was too well executed. Russia had been caught after leaving a million of proofs all over the zone, had blown his own sub leaving 20 Russian dead sailors floating around, or something like that. Also, they aren't gonna blow up his main source of money and the only way to blackmail Germany.
US, UK, maybe France or Poland or even Germany to put an end to internal dissension because the gas and to contribute to lower the price of gas in the long run leaving Russia without its main tool to produce uncertainty and to play with German economy (remember the mysterious malfunctions, the continuous stops due to "maintenance", the pay-with-rubles, and all those silly games from Putin?, well not anymore) In fact gas reservoirs are full and gas prices are the lowest since 2 years ago right now:


Russia has been the only loser, therefore it does make little sense to say it was Russia. In fact this is probably the only thing the Kremlin is not lying about. Anyway blowing up the nord blackmail pipeline was the best thing to do, so not a big problem there.
 
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By pushing both sides to negotiations?
The negotiation delegation consisting of Mr. Bradley, Mr. Stryker and others is on the way.

Ukraine's conditions for negotiations haven't changed since day 1: the invader gets out of our land first.
It is interesting that the Russian side has been pushing for negotiations so hard in recent months. Have all the objectives of the "special military operations" been achieved?
 
A small follow up about "top of the shelf" stuff being provided to Ukraine




Russia has been the only loser, therefore it does make little sense to say it was Russia. In fact this is probably the only thing the Kremlin is not lying about. Anyway blowing up the nord blackmail pipeline was the best thing to do, so not a big problem there.
it raised the gas price at the time (could also be a warning, "hey look how easy it is, western pipelines could blow up too"), the other NS pipeline was still intact and Putin offered a few days after to use it to send gas to Germany again (at the resulting market price of course).

they are maybe not the most motivated for blowing it, if I had to guess I'll put US, France, Poland and UK higher in the list of suspects, but they do had incentives too.
 
Unlike brave Ukrainian armchair warriors.
Considering all Ukraine is subject to Russian airstrikes there are no armchairs in Ukraine anymore.

It is of course typical and doubly ironic for a Russian poster to completely miss the nature of the situation in Ukraine. Not that we are not used to it by now.

But the consistency of the mismatch between reality and Russian perception is part of why negotiations remain an unworkable notion.
 
Considering all Ukraine is subject to Russian airstrikes there are no armchairs in Ukraine anymore.

It is of course typical and doubly ironic for a Russian poster to completely miss the nature of the situation in Ukraine. Not that we are not used to it by now.

But the consistency of the mismatch between reality and Russian perception is part of why negotiations remain an unworkable notion.
I didn't say there's anything wrong with this position.
"Russians must be driven away, just not by me. Let the unlucky guy grabbed from the streets do it" is perfectly understandable.
 
Gonna make a prediction here, and that is that the Russian propaganda in the coming year will lean heavily into forms of "Peace At All Cost", on the understanding that Russian is in the right, Russia is doing nothing, and it is the militaristic, aggressive, NATO/US-induced, Ukraine that all by itself against all reason, humanity etc. intends to prolong the conflict.

Russia is the victim. It is not occupying anything. And the message it is going to try to put about it will try to doctor so that it can hope increasing amounts of Europeans, Americans also probably, hopefully eventually a majority will end up thinking "What is all the fuss about? Why don't Ukraine just make peace with Russia already?"
 
I didn't say there's anything wrong with this position.
"Russians must be driven away, just not by me. Let the unlucky guy grabbed from the streets do it" is perfectly understandable.
Pot - kettle. Stone - glass house. Etc.
 
I guess sanctions are "working" in that something is indeed happening, but have there been any practical frontline effects to it? Like, are Russian units going hungry or something? Are they abandoning their positions because of lack of supplies?

They might be hampering the nation of Russia in toto, but not their side of the conflict, and there have been plenty of reasons to impose sanctions while Putin has been in power all these years anyway...
All this could've been done when they went into Georgia, too.

The frontline is of little importance to us - it will here or there, it will not change a thing,

sanctions are designed to remove the homicidal maniacs from our economic system.
 
The frontline is of little importance to us - it will here or there, it will not change a thing,

sanctions are designed to remove the homicidal maniacs from our economic system.
Spokespersons for the Russian govt pointing out how that is effectively impossible are correct about that, given what and how much Russia exports, and the global nature of the economic system.

What has been done however is remove-to-reduce Russian leverage relative to the rest of Europe, while other parts of the world have options in the matter.

If people want to look at what long-term sanctions like the ones on Russia, the only real under-study situation so far would be Iran. I think that has been pointed out ever since the sanctions began being discussed.
 
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