[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: War News Thread: Round 6

[Broken_Erika]

The F35 looks fat and dorky

Better looking than the X-32
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-32

 

[Birdjaguar]

China says it will propose peace plan for Ukraine, as chief diplomat refers to conflict as "warfare"​

Beijing is ready to present its peace proposition for Ukraine, its top diplomat announced Saturday at the Munich Security Conference, in a rare remark that referred to the Ukraine conflict as a war.

“This warfare cannot continue to rage on,” said Wang Yi, top foreign policy adviser to Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Territorial and sovereignty integrity of all countries will be respected in China’s proposal, Wang said, adding that Beijing will continue to work for peace.

"We can of course continue to shout out our positions at international conferences like this one, but I suggest that we should also begin to think calmly, especially for my friends in Europe," he said.
"We need to think about what efforts we can make to bring this warfare to an end," Wang added.

Some key context: Many European Union leaders in Munich remain wary of Beijing’s intentions, as Wang called on European countries to change their approach to the war.

US Vice President Kamala Harris on Saturday said the US was “troubled” by China’s continued support of Russia since the war in Ukraine began.

And European Commission President Ursula Von der Leyen told CNN on Saturday: "We need more proof that China isn't working with Russia, and we aren’t seeing that now."

China has repeatedly refused to condemn Russia's aggression in Ukraine. In late 2022, Russian President Vladimir Putin told his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping that their partnership was more important than ever in the face of “unprecedented pressure” from the West. Xi echoed Putin’s message of unity, saying that the two countries should “strengthen strategic coordination” and “inject more stability into the world,” according to Chinese state media Xinhua.

In September 2022, Putin conceded Beijing had “questions and concerns” over the invasion, in what appeared to be a veiled admission of diverging views on the war.

China’s top diplomat will also visit Russia this month, according to its foreign ministry, in the first visit to the country from a Chinese official in that role since the war began.

China says it will propose peace plan for Ukraine, as chief diplomat refers to conflict as "warfare"

The US has officially declared that Russia committed crimes against humanity during its war in Ukraine, Vice President Kamala Harris announced in Germany. Follow here for live updates.

www.cnn.com

 

[Civinator]

The F35 looks fat and dorky

The aircraft in the image are Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jets.

 

[Akka]

British prime minister says that "The UK will be the first country to provide Ukraine with long-range weapons".

Finally ! There is a bridge to finish down there.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Russia needs a face-saving exit. Having someone other than the West "negotiate" it is required for the face-saving. I'm sure behind the scenes they've been saying, "Get us out of this"

 

[saamohod]

It's only a matter of time before China starts openly supporting Russia's war with weaponry. So far they've been bailing Russia economically.

 

[Verbose]

"China is not neutral"… word from the EU Commissioner at this point:

 

[saamohod]

Russia needs a face-saving exit. Having someone other than the West "negotiate" it is required for the face-saving. I'm sure behind the scenes they've been saying, "Get us out of this"

Face-saving exit will let them rest, regroup, analyze their mistakes and attack again. You don't offer face-saving exit to an armed madman.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You let a madman continue ravaging a country?

When he wants out, you try to give him a way out. He won't make the mistake of going back in. Having done that is what makes him want out.

 

[Birdjaguar]

A full exit would be face saving leaving Crimea as the "dangling participle".

 

[Zelig]

Territorial and sovereignty integrity of all countries will be respected in China’s proposal,

Crimea and Donbass become newest Chinese province!

 

[Verbose]

You let a madman continue ravaging a country?

You let him rest, recuperate and have another go?

Putin doesn't want an out, he wants Ukraine. If not possible now, then later.

 

[Joij21]

You let a madman continue ravaging a country?

When he wants out, you try to give him a way out. He won't make the mistake of going back in. Having done that is what makes him want out.

Ha! Tell that to Ho Chi Minh! Or the Taliban!

It's the ole make the United States think you've given up and want peace, then wait for the United States to pull out/drop support, and finally attack again now that your target no longer has said American support and is vulnerable.

It's how we lost Vietnam and Afghanistan by the way.

 

[red_elk]

‘Ukraine is not going to militarily retake Crimea,’ top Democrat says​

His comments reflect a growing view that some kind of agreement will need to be realized to end the war.
MUNICH — A top Armed Services Democrat expressed deep concerns on Friday over the prospect of Ukrainian forces waging a bloody fight to retake Crimea.
“I think there’s more of a consensus out there that people realize that Ukraine is not going to militarily retake Crimea,” Rep. Adam Smith (Wash.), the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, said on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference.

‘Ukraine is not going to militarily retake Crimea,’ top Democrat says

His comments reflect a growing view that some kind of agreement will need to be realized to end the war.

www.politico.com

 

[amadeus]

Territorial and sovereignty integrity of all countries will be respected in China’s proposal, Wang said, adding that Beijing will continue to work for peace.

This would be a radical shift in policy from the chicoms: They would have to stop sending their ships into Japanese and Philippine waters and they would have to close down their secret police stations they run out of their consulates.

 

[Verbose]

Territorial and sovereignty integrity of all countries will be respected in China’s proposal, Wang said, adding that Beijing will continue to work for peace.

Then it rather depends on what is accepted as a country. According to Russia, Ukraine is not. So it depends on what the Chinese suppose all this to mean.

Might as well mean a demand for NATO to drop support for its puppet in Kiev, and allow Ukraine the freedom to join Russia for all we know yet.

 

[saamohod]

This would be a radical shift in policy from the chicoms: They would have to stop sending their ships into Japanese and Philippine waters and they would have to close down their secret police stations they run out of their consulates.

I.e. not gonna happen

 

[red_elk]

Link about German FM proficiency in geometry

Putin must turn ‘360 degrees’ – German FM - The Press United

Russia’s former president has ridiculed Annalena Baerbock’s grasp of geometry Russian President Vladimir Putin must “change by 360 degrees” in order for Ukraine to be safe, German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock told the Munich Security Conference. In other words, former Russian president...

thepressunited.com

Nice addition to "We will never recognize Rostov as part of Russia" by Liz Truss

 

[Joij21]

Yeah I don't see this war ending anytime soon, Putin just isn't serious about such talk. So the Chinese can talk all they may, but a few more years of carnage or a massive strategic defeat is necessary first before someone like Putin may be serious.

 

[Birdjaguar]

China doesn't want to miss out on testing under war conditions. From WSJ

Chinese Drones Still Support Russia’s War in Ukraine, Trade Data Show​

Despite sanctions, Kremlin continues to deploy small unmanned Chinese aircraft​

Drone technology is often bought by third parties and then shipped from China for use in Ukraine. PHOTO: SILAS STEIN/DPA/ZUMA PRESS

More than a year after Western authorities sought to shut down the pipeline supplying Russia in its war in Ukraine, exports of small, nimble Chinese drones are still providing the Kremlin with an effective way to target Ukrainian forces, according to Western officials, security analysts and customs data. Some of the commercial drones are arriving on the front lines from Russian distributors supplied by Shenzhen, China-based Da-Jiang Innovations Science & Technology Co., known as DJI, according to customs records, while others are transported through the United Arab Emirates.

Russia’s continued deployment of Chinese drones on the Ukrainian battlefield shows how its military has been able to draw critical items for its military from abroad, despite a wide-ranging Western pressure campaign intended to restrain Moscow’s ability to continue the war. The Pentagon worries that these drones aren’t only fueling Russia’s war effort, but also are allowing China to gather crucial battlefield intelligence that might enhance Beijing’s war readiness.

“As DJI and China watch the use of drones in a combat environment, they’re just soaking up data, a senior U.S. security official said. “They’re able to see the TTPs, the tactics, techniques and procedures,” the person said, including how the drones respond to electronic-warfare attacks. “Because China has the civil-military fusion, they’re able to then put that in the hands of the PLA and learn,” the official said, referring to the People’s Liberation Army. Chinese quadcopters, small unmanned helicopters with four rotors, have been a concern for the Pentagon since early in the war in Ukraine. The drones, which are used for both civilian and military purposes, are often bought by third parties and then shipped from China.

The Wall Street Journal viewed Russian customs records provided by ImportGenius, a trade database firm, and C4ADS, a Washington-based nonprofit that specializes in identifying national-security threats. In a statement, DJI said it opposes the use of civilian drones on the battlefield, pointing to its suspension of business in Russia and Ukraine in April last year. “However, as consumer electronics, DJI products can be purchased in e-commerce stores and stores in many countries,” the firm said. “We cannot prevent users or organizations from purchasing in countries or regions other than Russia and Ukraine, and then transship or gift them to Russia and Ukraine.”

China’s Embassy in Washington, responding to a request for comment for this article, referred to its Foreign Ministry’s position on the war in Ukraine, which has called for de-escalation and negotiations. Russia’s ministries of defense and foreign affairs didn’t respond immediately to a request for comment. In addition to the export data, dozens of videos and pictures viewed by the Journal show Russian fighters using DJI drones in Ukraine.

In a video posted in June, a group of gun-toting, khaki-clad, pro-Russian volunteers in southern Ukraine said they were about to receive “heroic shuttles”—a term for DJI drones—from the United Arab Emirates paid through the sanctioned state-bank Sberbank. The bank didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

In a social-media posting, Konstantin Kuznetsov, a gun dealer in Orenburg, Russia, who supplies the Russian military, said DJI drones are normally being bought in the Persian Gulf nation for 500,000 Russian rubles, the equivalent of about $6,800—much higher than market prices. Some drones and drone parts were delivered through the European Union after the war started, according to trade data and the Dutch government. Dutch authorities in September arrested Dmitri Alexeievitch Koudriavtsev for allegedly exporting goods to Russia in violation of international export controls. Federal prosecutors in the Netherlands said Mr. Koudriavtsev, the Dutch-Russian owner of Woerd-Tech BV, shipped the type of drones used by the Kremlin’s military.

Trade data show that Woerd-Tech shipped at least $270,000 of export-controlled goods, including DJI drone parts, to Russia after the U.S. and other Western allies imposed controls and sanctions. “By his actions the defendant knowingly contributed to Russian acts of violence against not only the Ukrainian army but also the civilian population,” Lenny Beijerbergen, spokesman for the Netherlands’ Public Prosecution Service, told the Journal. Mr. Koudriavtsev, contacted through his lawyer, declined to comment.

Wagner, a private paramilitary group fighting alongside Russia’s official army, has become reliant on DJI drones to plan and execute its operations, said Ukrainian journalist Yuri Butusov. “Drones are used both to identify targets and for command and control of the assault,” Mr. Butusov wrote on Censor.net, a blog he edits. Wagner and the GRU, Russia’s military-intelligence directorate, used Chinese quadcopters to target rebel forces in Syria, said Gleb Irisov, a former Russian air force officer who was deployed in the Middle East country after Moscow sided with the regime of Bashar al-Assad. In response to a request for comment on Wagner’s alleged use of drones, Yevgeny Prigozhin, Wagner’s founder, referred to past statements denying that the group operates with the Russian military. He didn’t address the question of the use of drones.