[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: War News Thread: Round 6

[saamohod]

West's alleged moral superiority.

At least it is common in the Western culture to admit past wrongdoings and inflicted atrocities. This alone makes them superior.
Unlike the Russian "no-remorse, never-guilty" culture that shoves anything that makes Russia look bad under the rug and punishes those who expose those truths.
Still denying that Bucha or MH17 were perpetrated by Russia, aren't we?

 

[red_elk]

What it hammers home is the need to prosecute the crimes against humanity.

Nobody argues against prosecution of crimes.
The argument is always about who are the "good" or "bad" guys, and who has the moral right to lecture others.

It's possible to find common ground with those who are capable to argue respectfully and on equal terms. There are such people in the thread.
But in most cases it's reduced to blame game, bickering and attempts to "destroy" the opponent.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Well according to the BBC:

Ukraine war: Putin pays visit to occupied Mariupol, state media reports

​

Ukraine war: Putin pays visit to occupied Mariupol, state media reports

The Russian president toured the Ukrainian city devastated by Russian shelling, the Kremlin says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Russian President Vladimir Putin has paid a surprise visit to Mariupol, a
Ukrainian port captured by Russia after its forces pounded much of it to ruins.

An official video shows Mr Putin driving a car through streets at night and speaking to people.

The Kremlin says it happened late on Saturday.

It is believed to be his first trip to a newly-occupied Ukrainian territory.

 

[keli]

For real

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637411973372452865

 

[saamohod]

For real

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637411973372452865

You're simply trying to badmouth Russian culture, aren't you?
For those who don't know what Wagner's sledgehammer is referring to, feel free to Google it. It gives a good insight into the mysterious Russian soul.

 

[Gedemon]

Nobody argues against prosecution of crimes.
The argument is always about who are the "good" or "bad" guys, and who has the moral right to lecture others.

It's possible to find common ground with those who are capable to argue respectfully and on equal terms. There are such people in the thread.
But in most cases it's reduced to blame game, bickering and attempts to "destroy" the opponent.

It's more about who can be punished and who can't. And the pre-requisite of some kind of democratic process to prevent a government to do whatever it wants for as long as it want, out of control.

So the problem here is the total impunity that seems to be felt on the Russian side, which leads to bigger war crimes and no end in sight unless we help Ukraine to gain back all of its territories.

 

[red_elk]

It's more about who can be punished and who can't. And the pre-requisite of some kind of democratic process to prevent a government to do whatever it wants for as long as it want, out of control.

Well, it's not like USA recognizes ICC authority, or their high-ranking officials were ever convicted for war crimes.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

For real

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637411973372452865

Wow, same moral standards like the west.

 

[EvaDK]

The Russian mindset seems to be, that 'Russians do not commit war crimes' regardless of context, assumptions, witness testimonies and evidence. They always pretend to be the victim. This mindset is of course challenged by evidence uncovered in previously Russian occupied territory in Ukraine.

I suspect that the currently occupied territory of Ukraine - if retaken by Ukrainian forces - will reveal that the Bucha massacre was not a singular event, but just one example of a systematic genocide of the Ukrainian people, culture and state orchestrated by Putin. Also exemplified by the abduction of thousands of Ukrainian children by Russian authorities. I suspect that unfortunately many more Buchas will be uncovered once that territory is reclaimed.

Putin and his accomplices will never stand trial, we know that. But the evidence and accounts must be put on record never the less; the truth must be established. I also applaud that Putin can never set foot in +120 nations around the World for the rest of his life. The arrest warrant by the ICC can not be suspended by anyone else but the ICC.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I suspect that the currently occupied territory of Ukraine - if retaken by Ukrainian forces - will reveal that the Bucha massacre was not a singular event, but just one example of a systematic genocide of the Ukrainian people, culture and state orchestrated by Putin.

Izyum already revealed that.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: "Whataboutism" is not part of this thread's news.

 

[red_elk]

"I don't know who this guy is, but his driver is Vladimir Putin"

 

[Sarin]

"I don't know who this guy is, but his driver is Vladimir Putin"

Must be Lenin's corpse on parade. Criminal and spiritual father of criminals that ruled Russia ever since.

 

[Zelig]

It's a strong argument

It’s not. It’s boring and irrelevant. At this point, it’s really more of a troll meme meant to antagonize and drag the conversation out of the realm of good faith and civility than it is a legitimate argument.

 

[Akka]

I suspect that the currently occupied territory of Ukraine - if retaken by Ukrainian forces - will reveal that the Bucha massacre was not a singular event, but just one example of a systematic genocide of the Ukrainian people, culture and state orchestrated by Putin.

No need to wait, liberated Kherson and Kharkiv regions were also littered by hundred of examples of institutionalized abduction, torture and execution. That our residents Russians pretend it all never happened and was just Ukraine propaganda in the usual attempt at false equivalency doesn't make all the facts cease to exist.

 

[red_elk]

It’s not. It’s boring and irrelevant.

It's not supposed to be openly admitted as convincing by the opponents, of course
Thank you for your opinion, anyway.

 

[REDY]

These all lame and cringe videos are really making you feel proud? Or am I missing something?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Putin and his accomplices will never stand trial, we know that. But the evidence and accounts must be put on record never the less; the truth must be established. I also applaud that Putin can never set foot in +120 nations around the World for the rest of his life. The arrest warrant by the ICC can not be suspended by anyone else but the ICC.

Maybe no sanctions lifted until he does!

 

[Birdjaguar]

@IgrOK[SU]
Moderator Action: I deleted your post about the Russian psyche. Generalizations about such things do not reflect individuals and do nothing to promote civility. Russians are thus...Germans are thus...The French are thus...Americans are thus...etc. might have some value in a different time and place. Here they don't and all they do is add to the animosity. If folks keep it up, and that includes posting links and studies and talking head's opinions, my inclination will be to issue thread bans. Stay with the war news please. Thanks.

 

[keli]

Perhaps the overflow thread could be used to dump such links, comments etc. about cultural differences. I still seriously think that one of the issues was that the West did not understand Russian priorities, the way of thinking and reactions to severe circumstances. Since the cold war this is no longer researched in depth and as such not many people understand Russia today.
So I would be happy to keep this conversation running in the overflow thread if it's not allowed in this red diamond thread.

Russia Invasion Spillover

I was reading the news here and they’ve changed the reading of Kiev, キエフ, to Kyiv, キーウ. What other places in Ukraine have had their foreign language spellings changed? I know of Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Odesa. Is it just major cities or is it more widespread? I don’t even know which one to use for...

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