[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: War News Thread: Round 6

[Verbose]

Ukraine war: Xi, Putin pledge to shape new world order, no peace in sight for Ukraine

China's President Xi Jinping and Russia's President Vladimir Putin set their sights on shaping a new world order as the Chinese leader left Moscow on Wednesday, having made no direct support for Putin's war in Ukraine during his two-day visit.

www.reuters.com

Russian dictator engaged in war crimes says what?

Whatever suits the narrative being pushed. This kind of through-the-looking-glass stuff this Russian government has been doing for decades. Confusing the issue for all that are only casually interested in the Ukraine war is the thing.

 

[Verbose]

At first it was "helping Ukraine is dangerous because NATO ammo stock is being depleted", now that ammo production is being ramped up the predominant slogan is "helping Ukraine to defend itself is not the human thing to do".

i am beginning to suspect that innonimatu's really wants is to see Russia conquering Ukraine.

That would show the US, NATO, EU.

 

[Akka]

Tankie logic.

Yeah, tankie "logic" is kinda fascinating in its nonsensicality.

"I'm a socialist, I defend the masses against the oppression of the dominant class"
"Great !"
"The West has a flawed democracy with bad wealth distribution, it's not good"
"You're right !"
"So I'm going to always support bloodthirsty dictatorships where all the money and power is concentrated in a tiny elite to fight against the flaws of bad wealth distribution of these democracies !"
"Ye... What ?"

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, tankie "logic" is kinda fascinating in its nonsensicality.

"I'm a socialist, I defend the masses against the oppression of the dominant class"
"Great !"
"The West has a flawed democracy with bad wealth distribution, it's not good"
"You're right !"
"So I'm going to always support bloodthirsty dictatorships where all the money and power is concentrated in a tiny elite to fight against the flaws of bad wealth distribution of these democracies !"
"Ye... What ?"

You missed the even worse corruption, worse wealth inequality, lack of social security net etc.

I can somewhat understand the Soviet appeal. Russia not so much.

 

[saamohod]

Just another Russian rocket hitting residential houses in Ukraine.
Nothing to see here.
We need to avoid the escalation.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1638495357612052480

 

[Akka]

Russia seems to be in a difficult situation with its tanks.
Though let's remember Russia is still winning easily with a ratio of losses of 10 to 1, which means the Ukrainians have lost at least 19 000 tanks. That's a pretty huge Russian feat considering Ukraine didn't even have one fifth of that to begin with, but that only underscore just how much NATO is getting a nosebleed. Or something like that, I'm a bit lost trying to track tankies arguments.

In fact, Russia is winning so hard it has decided to bring T-54 out of storage, probably as a gesture of goodwill to even the odds.

Speaking of tanks, the USA aim to speed up the delivery of Abrams by getting older versions from army warehouses instead of waiting for the new production.

 

[Senethro]

However ridiculous/awful tankies are, believing 10 to 1 absolutely sincerely risks si.ilar levels of wishful thinking.

 

[REDY]

You missed the even worse corruption, worse wealth inequality, lack of social security net etc.

I can somewhat understand the Soviet appeal. Russia not so much.

I liked Russian budgets without debts.
But apparently, it wasn't savings to improve Russia.

 

[amadeus]

I’m trying to reconcile the two different stories we are presented: Russia is pulling out its museum pieces to fight in Ukraine, but it is also imperative that the Ukrainians receive modern Western tanks?

I don’t see how they can be congruent, unless there is some nuance behind the stories like the Russians using them for patrols in occupied territory (a tank is probably better than no tank) or something.

 

[Akka]

I’m trying to reconcile the two different stories we are presented: Russia is pulling out its museum pieces to fight in Ukraine, but it is also imperative that the Ukrainians receive modern Western tanks?

I don’t see how they can be congruent, unless there is some nuance behind the stories like the Russians using them for patrols in occupied territory (a tank is probably better than no tank) or something.

Numbers, artillery and the need for Ukraine to go on the offensive.
Or didn't you notice that Russia hasn't been able to do any meaningful advance after weeks of nonstop assaults with lots of these subpar tanks, so if Ukraine is to be able to regain tens of thousands of km², it does need a seriously better offense, i.e. more tanks of a better quality ?

 

[Verbose]

I’m trying to reconcile the two different stories we are presented: Russia is pulling out its museum pieces to fight in Ukraine, but it is also imperative that the Ukrainians receive modern Western tanks?

I don’t see how they can be congruent, unless there is some nuance behind the stories like the Russians using them for patrols in occupied territory (a tank is probably better than no tank) or something.

The Ukranians aren't going to need western stuff in numbers to fight Russian tanks. It is going to need them IF Ukraine is going to have a real shot at breaking through static Russian defensive lines, into open ground, and then ideally quickly roll up large tracts of Russian occupied territory.

Of course, if the Russians then have available equally mobile tank reserves, there might be rather spectacular tank war going down. But we haven't really seen the makings of that kind of things so far. The Russians haven't shown themselves very good at armored manouvre warfare since the opening months of the war (when the Ukranians still largely managed to counter them in the end). The Ukranians have looked promising, but been aided by surprise, through a certain Russian underestimation and lack of preparation, which cannot be taken for granted. So the Ukranians have things to prove, even if then can put together the kind of armored forces they have a mind to (upwards of 20 brigades worth).

 

[Thorgalaeg]

You missed the even worse corruption, worse wealth inequality, lack of social security net etc.

I can somewhat understand the Soviet appeal. Russia not so much.

I think i tried to explain it in a previous post. It is not a matter of politics in the traditional left vs right dicotomy, in fact both extreme right and extreme left weirdos support Putin. The phenomena of westerners supporting Putin is basically about unadapted people going against the "system" they perceive as the cause for his own failures, it is also a way of feeling special going against main stream. In other words losers rooting for the loser.

 

[saamohod]

In other words losers rooting for the loser.

I'd call it "losers rooting for alternative" as it gives them hope that in the alternative universe they won't be losers.

 

[EvaDK]

I’m trying to reconcile the two different stories we are presented: Russia is pulling out its museum pieces to fight in Ukraine, but it is also imperative that the Ukrainians receive modern Western tanks?

I don’t see how they can be congruent, unless there is some nuance behind the stories like the Russians using them for patrols in occupied territory (a tank is probably better than no tank) or something.

Russia has supposedly lost around 50% of their operational tank fleet in Ukraine. They have too few T-90s to just throw them away as they do with their T-72s and the Russian armament industry can't replace them. That is why they are pulling obsolete junk out of long time storage. Generals that lose such huge quantities of men and material as the Russians have lost in just one year, should not be generals - nor officers to begin with. But we shouldn't complain about Russian incompetence, as it directly helps the Ukrainians in their effort to take back their own territory.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I am not sure that there are many supporters of Vladimir Putin in the West at all.

If I come across one, I might consider their understanding, but until then it is hypothetical to me.

 

[red_elk]

Jeffrey Sachs about the Xi-Putin meeting.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: To all: Please refrain from using the term "tankies". Stalin has been dead for a while now and its use today is just inflammatory. if you use it, expect a response. Thanks.

 

[Verbose]

Jeffrey Sachs about the Xi-Putin meeting.

Clearly Xi made no effort beyond listening to the official Russian narrative. Whatever it does, it won't fly in Kiev.

Russia, and China, are going to have to accept that Ukraine has chosen Europe. Until then, this war is about Russia's refusal to face reality,

If anything the actual question to China is what guarantees it can give that Russia will not attack Ukraine again? – if there is to be some kind of settlement. That might be worth listening to, but not before.

 

[Gedemon]

That was a rumor, seems official now.

France is training Ukrainian pilots on the Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft designed by Dassault Aviation. For over a month and a half, around thirty of them have been receiving accelerated training on French fighter-bombers at the Mont-de-Marsan and Nancy air bases. The decision was made prior to Volodymyr Zelensky's visit to Paris on February 8th

La France forme des pilotes ukrainiens sur des Mirage

INFO LE FIGARO - Si la décision politique était prise, la France pourrait livrer une dizaine d’avions de chasse à l’armée ukrainienne.

www.lefigaro.fr

 

[Gedemon]

The news has been corrected, it's not pilot yet, the edited version says:

About thirty of them are receiving accelerated training on French fighter-bombers at the Mont-de-Marsan and Nancy air bases. According to the Ministry of Defense, the training of the pilots themselves has not yet begun, only that of 'military air personnel'.