Russia is the funnest to play

[Dave_Oz]

As a Russian, i dont feel i was ever taught that our 'backwardness' at the start of the 20th century was anyones elses fault but our own.

Conservative nobility and religious control was to blame! *as well as the army and populace allowing it*

As bloody and horrible the revolution and the early communist rule was, it made Russia a better place.

My Avatar is to thank for alot of that

 

[Rod]

I more talking about the current backwardness.

However it is indeed a unfortunate truth that Russian "best" rulers always seemed to be the ones who were using the cruellest methods.

No matter whether Ivan Grosny clubbed his own son to dead, or Peter I sacrificed thousand of farmers in the swamps of St. Peterburg, or Ekaterina II sent her troops with explicite orders towards the East or whether Stalin used forced labour to the biggest extent in world history. Success proved them to be right, doesnt it ?

No the truth is hidden in Russian culture. I now believe that the biggest flaws of Russian culture is the inability to accept mistakes. No one is allowed to make a mistake, from early childhood this is hammered into the children's mind. The result is a huge risk aversion, the absolute unwillingness to make changes until it is too obvious that change is required as the whole situation is completely in the mess.

Then someone is taking out the big gun, is doing some required changes by extreme force and for a short while Russia is prospering until the old routine of no change sets in again ....

 

[Lone Wolf]

So in the same time when the European powers invested huge sums into universities, banks and railroads Russia was investing huge sums to quell rebellions in Kavkas, Krim and the regions ... any more questions ??

Why do rebellions in Russia's posessions are one of the reasons of backwardness, but rebellions in colonies of Western powers did not make them backwards?

 

[BurnEmDown]

Then someone is taking out the big gun, is doing some required changes by extreme force and for a short while Russia is prospering until the old routine of no change sets in again ....

I think he means that revolutions helped Russia develop, but the government always tries to stop them because they think they'll only hurt.

 

[Dave_Oz]

Why do rebellions in Russia's posessions are one of the reasons of backwardness, but rebellions in colonies of Western powers did not make them backwards?

Well i have no idea on numbers, but im sure the American revolution cost England a decent amount, ecspecially in future tax revenue.

Also France and England gave alot of concessions to there colonies after seeing what could happen if your to strict.

Before them, Spain lost huge amounts from there colonies, not so much from civil dissent, but from looting corruption and theft. Russia wasnt the only one to have it tough

The western colonial empires 'probably' had a easier time advancing and dealing with revolt because they had higher incomes from controlling smaller colonies with valuable goods of the time. While Russia had a huge area to control that wasn't as valuable as say, the spice islands or tobacco growing areas.

 

[Khoukharev]

About year 1917 (communist came to power yay) revolution and Nicholas I. They were many reasons social problems and action which led to revolution but yea Nocholas I played some role. In 1825 (day of hes coronation) there was a decembrist's revolt.

You should learn history better since it's totally messed up.
In 1917 Nickolay II (2!) was the emperor, Nickolay I and decembrist were in 1825 (about a century earlier). And your explanation of what happend on Senate sq. is something very simplistic.
The impact of Mongols was really huge and changed society from typical european into something else. It have nothing to do with 20th century however.
So RTFM, history books in this context.

Why do rebellions in Russia's posessions are one of the reasons of backwardness, but rebellions in colonies of Western powers did not make them backwards?

Because it was not the only factor in play. Just one example: because it's pretty much colder in Russia than in Europe (even in Northen Europe) the price of any industrious production is at least 20% higher. In some cases it may be 50-70-90% higher if product require high quantity of energy (goods made from aluminium for instance). And it's just one example.

 

[Rod]

Why do rebellions in Russia's posessions are one of the reasons of backwardness, but rebellions in colonies of Western powers did not make them backwards?

Well as already mentioned the price performance ratio was much better. Even at the height of the British Empire the Brits had no more that 18 000 soldiers in India and not more that 100 000 Red jackets in all colonies. Not to mention that in 19th century India alone was bringing in more money to UK than entire Sibiria to Russia.

You know yourself how desperately Russia tried to pacify the Kavkas region which is as small as the former GDR and has even in current times less inhabitants than the Baltic Lands.

Just in this year the Kreml has transferred 350 Mio Dollars to the criminal government in South Ossetia. For the same sum you could pay EVERY Russian student his ENTIRE Semester fee at ALL universities in Russia.

Guess what is better for the country?

Either to throw money away on 50.000 barbarians and their corrupt government or to invest it in the future academic elite of this country.

Russian leaders were simply always thinking Empire first and people second ... which is (imho) a wrong attitude.

I also dont buy the "Russia is soo cold" argument. You know Canada is colder (in average) than Russia and is also a huge country.
(average means that Russia has large territories south of the tundra belt (e.g. Black Sea) which are pretty warm. Also Moscow is actually not colder than Toronto)

But if you compare both lands then obviously Canada is in much better shape then Russia.

 

[Khoukharev]

I also dont buy the "Russia is soo cold" argument. You know Canada is colder (in average) than Russia and is also a huge country.

Haha, that made me laugh.
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/ shows us the lowest temp. in Canada is -28 while the most inhabitant part of the country is +5/-12
In Russia... well european part is somewhat the same, but everything on the east, ie most part of the country is as following: Salehard today: -42; Kyzyl today: -23, forecast on 12.02.09 is -42 though; Tomsk -32; Yakutsk -42; Novokuznetsk -30

Either to throw money away on 50.000 barbarians and their corrupt government or to invest it in the future academic elite of this country.

It's not that strange if you don't dream of being surrounded by US-NATO satellites.

 

[Rod]

And what would happen if Russia is surrounded by temporarly US-Satellites ?

Do you really believe that US-Bases in Central Asia are a threat to Russia ?? Do you really believe that any country in the world would attack Russia ever again ??

See, you should understand that it is a benefit to Russia if the Americans pump money into these regions. It is a benefit to Russia if anybody pumps money into the regions around Russia.
Russia is surrounded by impoverished countries. From North Korea to Armenia, Georgia till Belarus and Ukraine Russia is surrounded by countries which have the economic level of African states.
Do you think that is good for Russia ??

You have certainly heard about trade ? You know that is this thing that Russia can only do with countries who are not its neighbours.
Ireland, France, Germany, Japan , Korea etc do their MOST trade WITH their neighbours. Russia cannot. You certainly see the difference.

Moreover these Central Asian and Kavkasian will only sell themselves as long as they get the money. If the money runs out they will go for the next patron. If the US wouldnt pay the Tadchiks then the Chinese will. If the US wouldnt pay the Georgians then the Europeans will. These billions of dollars dont matter much for US or Europe but they matter for Russia.
Russia must sincerely think whether it is worth to engage in this kind of lottery. What are the benefits (i mean the hardcore economic ones) to engage in these regions. Russia has already been outclassed once in the eighties when the US simply started to ramp up their bugdet for weapons in order to trick Russia to do the same. You know what .. Russia did the same and overstretched its resources. Soon after it collapsed.

Last but not least you should understand that at the current moment only 15 mio Russians live east of the Urals. The population of only Moscow amounts to the same number. So dont tell me that Russia is Siberia and hence tell me the temperature from Siberia. That is crap. 90 % of Russians live in the European part. THAT is Russia.

And now tell why it should be more expensive to run a factory in Rostow na Done, Voronesh or Samara ?? (except for the local corruption which significantly increases the legal costs and for the local mafia)

 

[Deego3]

What country wouldn't be worried about their former enemy putting missles next to them.

 

[Rod]

E.g. Germany.

Do you think there was an outcry in Germany when the French suddenly developed Atomic Bombs and placed the same in France ? There was not.

Well , you might argue that Germany had better relations with France in those days and that you cannot expect much outcry from a defeated country, but, you know, Russia had lost the Cold War and is simply not taking steps to improve their relations with their former enemies ..

 

[Deego3]

Russia never "lost" the Cold war, they just fell behind the Americans.

 

[BurnEmDown]

The fall of USSR seems like losing the war to me, no?

 

[Aesus]

I have a love for colonizing in RFC, so I obviously love Britain, the fact that almost anywhere imagionable (metaphorically speaking) can be colonized with correct names, the sheer pleasure of crushing the US when it tries to take New York also does it for me, no offence to any US neighbours . I also like playing France because noone really colonizes africa that much, and with France, almost all of western africa is open to historical colonization, along with a huge chunk of North America and a peice of India.
When I am feeling particularly risky i play as Rome, keeping the empire alive through the French and Spanish births.. I usually let england steal Londinium tho because I need the troops, I pull every troop from Britain and attack the french with them. Afterwards though, i destroy UK also.

 

[Aesus]

Haha, that made me laugh.
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/ shows us the lowest temp. in Canada is -28 while the most inhabitant part of the country is +5/-12
In Russia... well european part is somewhat the same, but everything on the east, ie most part of the country is as following: Salehard today: -42; Kyzyl today: -23, forecast on 12.02.09 is -42 though; Tomsk -32; Yakutsk -42; Novokuznetsk -30


It's not that strange if you don't dream of being surrounded by US-NATO satellites.

I would like to point out that Russia AND Canada are both huge, cold countries. Canada in the winter on the EAST coast gets MUCH colder than the WEST coast, that Is where you are getting mixed up. It may be warmer right around now, but that is not due to climate, thats a warm front from the US (and it comes with complimentary pollution too!!). We get ON AVERAGE More snow in Inhabited areas than RUSSIA'S Inhabited areas. (that means places like Siberia and the Canadian Territories are out!)

 

[awetzel]

Well although Russia is kinda fun i d have to say playing civs with no hope of winning is more my style or at least with the deck stacked against em. Maya, Inca, Aztec (although Aztecs are getting a bit easy as of late as ive played the hell outta them) Mali and my all time favorite but one i can only play once in a while due to utter frustration Egypt.

 

[onedreamer]

my favorites are Rome, Persia and Arabia.

 

[onedreamer]

As bloody and horrible the revolution and the early communist rule was, it made Russia a better place.

My Avatar is to thank for alot of that

I strongly disagree.
Russia lost a HUGE portion of its culture with the revolution. No abrupt change has ever been positive, changes should be gradual.

The fall of USSR seems like losing the war to me, no?

short answer: no
long answer: no+

 

[Duke of Awesome]

im pretty sure this thread is dead

 

[wolfigor]

In my opinion a very important of the reasons of Russia's historical backwardness is the long term reliance on serfdom (pretty much systematic slavery) .
Serfdom was officially abolished in 1861, until that time the greatest part of Russian population was bind to their village with no prospect, and no real property.
In this conditions agricoltural production is extremely inefficient with workers stimulated to do the minimum necessary and produce minimal to no surplus.
Minimal surplus means as well a minimal number of people that can work on services, commerce, industry, etc.

Imperial Russia was a land of peasants, which made up at least 80% of the population. There were two main categories of peasants, those living on state lands and those living on the land of private landowners. Only the latter were serfs. As well as having obligations to the state, they also were obliged to the landowner, who had great power over their lives. By the mid-nineteenth century, less than half of Russian peasants were serfs.

For example the renaissance in western Europe was possible because of efficient agricolture that gave surplus of food.
That allowed a large group of free people to engage in economic activities and industry.
Later on schools, universities, etc. improved even more the productivity of west-European countries.

In Russia, greatest part of the pupulation could not even leave their own village, had no right to start their own enterprise: for centuries the development of Russia was fuelled by only a minority of its population, while other European countries could count on a much larger share of their pupulation freed from serfdom and freed from subsistence agricolture.

Even when in 1861 serfdom was abolished, it was not a gradual process like in the rest of Europe but a traumatic event that creted huge problems.