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Russia + Ruling Elite

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ermak-, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. Ermak-

    Ermak- Prince

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    Russian krepost building reduces culture requirement for aquaring new tiles by 50%, Ruling Elite reduces another 66% with a 116% combined. That is pretty crazy, especially if u can get hendgehog early.
     
  2. Sneaks

    Sneaks Brooklyn Bum

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    See: Landed Elite+Angkor Wat discussion further down the page.
     
  3. BomberEscort

    BomberEscort Don't be alarmed; this is a kindness Supporter

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    See GlobalDefines.xml. It's capped at a maximum of -85%.

    <Row Name="CULTURE_PLOT_COST_MOD_MINIMUM">
    <Value>-85</Value>
    </Row>
     
  4. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    What the heck! That sucks. I've been building the Wat think I was getting the fully bonus, but it makes little sense to get both landed elite and the Wat then. Preferable that you get the Wat and save the policy for something else since the Wat, if you make it a goal is something you can get pretty much every time.
     
  5. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well
    Krepost=2xSpeed
    Elite=3x speed
    Wat=4x speed

    Any 2 of the above=6x speed

    So adding one onto the other is still worthwhile.
     
  6. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    Not quite correct, a cost increase of 85% doesn't equal 6.7x speed because the cost increases. You only need 15% of the culture to reach the same level is a better way of looking at it. So if it took you 200 turns before, it now only takes 30, which isn't such a huge improvement over the 50 it took you with Angkor Wat.
     
  7. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    still definitely a non-trivial benefit at least. pump out a monumement/temple even with the wat you'll get a tile every couple of turns, add in krepost/landed elite and most of your cities will hit max expansion very early.
     
  8. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well given the increasing costs it is more like

    Krepost=1.4x as many tiles.. 50% to get particular # of tiles
    Elite= 1.7x as many tiles... 33% to get particular # of tiles
    Wat=2x as many tiles...25% to get particular # of tiles

    at any point

    2 or more=2.4x as many tiles...15% to get particular # of tiles

    and 30 v. 50 is still an improvement. There can be definite benefit to Massive territory


    It does mean that
    1) If you plan on getting the Wat you can Generally ignore Elite.. and vice versa, except for denial
    2) If you get either Wat or Elite, Russia's UB should only be in Miitary cities
     
  9. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    I don't quite see the benefit because what am I to do with all those tiles? I certainly can't work them due to size constraints unless I settle fairly close, but then I don't need them.

    Agree with the conclusions you draw, though.
     
  10. juckie

    juckie Warlord

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    Tiles removes fog of war, knowledge is power.
    Easier (defensive) wars, with border-combat-bonusses.
    Denial for opponents.

    x-th ring resources are in reach way faster giving more luxury/strategic resource output per city.

    But I have to agree in some sense, it's better for the Culture games, which are by default weaker win conditions then others.
     
  11. Sneaks

    Sneaks Brooklyn Bum

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    The fog is the only of the reasons listed I would even consider it normally, but it is still too weak a benefit to bother with. The combat bonus doesn't really appeal, considering chances are I want my troops by/in my cities if I am playing defensively. No reason to give up free city attacks, or have the AI focus fire on something a lot stronger than my soldiers. As for the resource thing, if there was a resource that close, but required an outer ring, that would be reason enough to spend the production power on a settler. I still get the resource, but now I get extra science, gold, etc. along with that resource. Even post-patch, there are not enough benefits for "going big" with cities.
     
  12. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    I don't know. I'd consider sacrificing a few cites to have city spacing 4 tiles or more apart. Also that usefull inner 2nd ring comes very fast. After that its about land denial. Shame its harder to get :) to support lots of big cities post patch.
     
  13. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    The second ring isn't useful at all with my playstyle. Most cities stay at 4 because that's the most efficient use of happiness. Some will grow to 6 if they have a circus, but the inner ring and some tiles they steal from somewhere else suffices. When you get Theatres, some will grow to 9 or 11 but you can just let them steal tiles from other cities which are by now running a scientist.

    Land denial is pretty irrelevant (certainly not good enough to spend a SP on) because half of the time you only hurt an opponent who's behind at any rate and doing harm to your opponents is mostly worse than giving yourself a benefit. I never had any much trouble defending my cities yet, even on Deity, and usually stay close to my cities as Sneaks mentioned, so culture is also unnecessary for that.

    Removing fog of war: Yes, but what do I gain from that? The AI will practically never take more than one city from me even with a surprise strike, and if it does one I doubt having an additional turn would save it in most cases.

    I'm not saying that getting it is bad if you play for large, spread out cities, though. But getting those isn't that much of a very powerful strategy except if you go for the puppet fandango.
     
  14. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    I play King level so I get punished far less for ineffiecent play than I imagin you do!

    You're right though I would probably avoid the SP and use a Krepost and AW instead. After I'm done with the Kreposts expansion boost I'll sell it if its not a military city.

    I would also end up with a core of these cities, and then as you say some puppets ;)

    The UB makes Terra style maps good for Russai as you can claim all that new overseas land nice and fast.
     

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