Russia strategy and city placement

I'm not very far along but Budapest and Talinn seem to be going great. My stability is solid. I don't know if instability will be a problem later in the game but my economy is strong and that seems to be a good counter.

I realized that I don't know what I should be doing with my workers. I know tons and tons of cottages are important and necessary but some of my cities like Talinn really need some workshops or watermills to enhance their production. I'm hesitant to chop forests because I could fill them with lumbermills later, and I lose their productive capacity, which the city managers don't seem to want to make up by working the workshops. I spend a lot of time wondering what I should be doing with my workers and what is most important. So what should I build to develop my city tiles?

Also, I'm addicted to the whip. I don't know when I should switch civics. On the first turn I switched to Hereditary Rule, Vassalage, Slavery, and Organized Religion. I also didn't adopt Christianity until after I got a few techs from China, but did eventually. But I understand that in RFC each time you switch has a negative effect on your stability, and certain combinations of civics have a negative effect, so I don't know what I should switch to, and when. It seems I should adopt state property as soon as I get Communism, but that's an industrial era tech so what switches, if any, should I make before I get there? Caste system or Serfdom? Representation or Universal Suffrage? Should I hold off on adoptions at any point until I get a certain combination to avoid reducing my stability?

What techs should I aim for? Trading techs is a challenge, most of the time I'm behind and as soon as I research a tech that someone else doesn't have they won't trade me anything for it. Should I aim for for what appears to be unresearched by others so I can trade it as soon as I get it? How do I keep up?
 
Whipping is a terrible addiction! Remember that every population point lost takes turns to replenish, just as the increased unhappiness makes that growth more difficult. Only whip when your excess population is completely un-needed, or when you must have that unit/building the next turn. Constantly reducing your cities pop is also very damaging to stability as it stops your economy growing and may even cause it to shrink.

When I play Russia I like to use serfdom as there is lots of land to improve, but from the sound of it you are already at a loss for what to do with your workers. Caste system is a good replacement for the whip as you can use the extra population for specialists, which stores your population rather than diminishing it, when expanding your number of cities artists are also useful for quick cultural border increases.
 
You don't have to run State Property as Russia, but it definitely helps with upkeep costs and allows good production even without hills. I strongly advise against running Representation, other than for a short transition to Universal Suffrage, because you get a -2 stability penalty for every city above three, and Russia is not that predestinated for a SE anyway. Once you start settling Siberia, Bureaucracy also begins to cause problems (-1 for every city above five), although that can be alleviated by a good economy.

Other than that, I'd still start with Slavery. The reason is that Russia lacks happiness and won't be able to get a lot of it shortly. So you'll have a lot of excess population that won't do anything for you because of unhappiness which is better used for the whip. It's also important to get culture buildings fast in your cities at the German border, and the important basic buildings in general. After they're built, you should stop slaving; as already said, it hurts your stability if you overdo it. Serfdom might still be useful depending on your worker progress (you could switch into it with another civic if it doesn't cost additional anarchy), but often I didn't need it anymore.

If you want to go for a cottage economy (and not State Property + workshops), all forests near Tallinn should be chopped as early as the city has population to work it. Get only necessary buildings (granary, science buildings, harbor, maybe a blacksmith to run an engineer), you won't need any other production there.
 
Tallinn (I always rename it Sankt-Peterburg->Leningrad) will be your science center, so cottage nearly every tile around, just reserve couple forests next to river for lumbermills (check the spoiler). Chopping the forests will also give hammers for buildings. Kiev, Budapest and Moscow will be your production cities.

For very detailed information you can check my story about Russia here.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0002-5.jpg
 
Leningrad in Estonia ... Estonians would be shocked ;)
 
Leoreth said:
Leningrad in Estonia ... Estonians would be shocked ;)
Click to expand...
In the what-if universe had he controlled Livonia at the time, Peter would rather have settled the future capitol of the Russian Empire on the solid limestone on the southern shores of the Gulf of Finland instead of the swamps of the Neva. However, if that were the case, there wouldn't have been a Estonia as there isn't any Ingria today.
 
Ogrelord said:
You can still keep all your cities and still win a UHV. Even though Germany was the first to finished the Apollo Program, I still managed to finished mine on the dot 1950 and achieved UHV. I didn't go to war with anyone, unless they declared first. Also all those Siberian cities... massive reinforcement to the Russian western front.
Click to expand...

Yea, but they are a drag on the economy, without providing much resources. It would just be easier to get rid of them, using the saved gold to increase the science slider. Faster to rocketry (and to Apollo) yields a higher chance to win, if you are pressed on time.

And by the way, I've never seen such a productive Leningrad!

It is in Estonia. Hah, I just noticed that... since I don't found Leningrad anyways.
 
Jusos2108 said:
Tallinn (I always rename it Sankt-Peterburg->Leningrad) will be your science center, so cottage nearly every tile around, just reserve couple forests next to river for lumbermills (check the spoiler). Chopping the forests will also give hammers for buildings. Kiev, Budapest and Moscow will be your production cities.

For very detailed information you can check my story about Russia here.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0002-5.jpg
Click to expand...

I read your story but how did you accumulate so many espionage points? Your screenshots always show your slider at 0%. You did a great job going beyond the UHV as Russia but the story doesn't cover how you accomplished your feats.
 
Every city had jail, security bureau and intelligence agency, with lots of cities that equals lots of espionage points and they also give you stability. The story shows pretty well how I managed to keep up in tech with all those cities and also it shows my city placement. What more would you need?
 
Jusos2108 said:
Every city had jail, security bureau and intelligence agency, with lots of cities that equals lots of espionage points and they also give you stability. The story shows pretty well how I managed to keep up in tech with all those cities and also it shows my city placement. What more would you need?
Click to expand...

To everyone (not just Jusos2108):

I plan to have fewer cities, probably 9 or 10 in Europe and then the 7 in Siberia for UHV, maybe more well after 1700 if I see a good spot that needs to be put to use. I don't plan to play for map domination, I hope to avoid any conflicts with my neighbors and I plan to build my Siberian cities as close to Europe as I can so as to minimize maintenance costs and tension with the Mongols. I'm going for quickest, peaceful UHV, and what wonders I can get along the way, (I already have Notre Dame, Sistine Chapel, University of Sankore, and War Pishnok whatever) though I would like to keep my Siberian cities and make them productive.

I'm really inexperienced with espionage and city specialization. What were your city build orders? Around 1500 I only just reached Liberalism (got Printing Press for my free tech) and I only have 4 mature cities and about 5 that I've just founded and which I'm trying to build up. How did you get so many espionage points early in the game with only courthouses, before jails and security bureaus and intelligence agencies become available? Did you assign a particular spy specialist city?

Also, in my game, France is consistently ahead of Turkey in tech. That may be due to my trading with them earlier to keep up in the tech race but maybe that will change by 1600-1700. Should I expect that to change or should I focus my espionage on France?

I attached some screenshots. Other than the cities here I plan to build Abo 1W and 3N of Tallin when I capture that tile via cultural expansion, and another city 4E of Vologda, then I'll build out Siberia, then maybe build along the Arctic.

I'm woefully behind in espionage points to hope to steal any techs. Other than building those espionage point buildings should I do anything else to catch up? I have some allocated toward Germany that I hope to use to capture some tiles in the Budapest BFC, but I don't know how that will work- Germany seems to get tiles in its start area even when I have 80% culture there.

In tech I'm trying to beeline for Physics and Communism to capture the free great scientist and free great spy, and to adopt state property. But your strategy suggests I should immediately research Constitution and Democracy. My other thought was to aim for Military Tradition/Replaceable Parts/Rifling so I can build Lumbermills and Cossacks to defend my Siberian cities. Suggestions/criticisms?

How many national wonders am I allowed to build in each city? Tallin gets Oxford as recommended and I guess the Opera House since it gets a lot of unhappiness due to crowding. Which cities should get the Stock Exchange/Trading Company and Interpol? Can anyone tell me from experience if it will be necessary or pointless to build the National Gallery in Budapest to capture the BFC tiles? I already have the Sistine Chapel there and I plan on putting my first cathedral and synagogue there, and whatever other religions' cathedrals.
 

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For one thing, you have too many roads. Roads = worker turns waster unless it is to connect cities or resources. I count at least 7 unnecessary roads in your first picture. That is 21 worker turns that could have been spent cottaging.

Lumbermills are decidely meh in my mind. Unless I have a forest directly on a river and get the +1 commerce bonus, I normally cottage or mine that tile, especially with new cities that I need the hammers to quickly build infrastructure buildings. Russia has decent access to health resources, so the bonus that forests provide are minimal. Between the whip and forestry all my cities were well developed very early.

In most of my games, French/English/Dutch are always in the lead along with Russia and Japan. This is especially true if the Europeans are all the same religion and thus peaceful towards each other, cause then they expand like crazy on other continents.

The main reason to go for Cossacks is to go on the warpath in order to vassalize great chunks of your neighbors and then force them to trade you luxury resources, which you are sorely lacking.
 
guspasho said:
I'm really inexperienced with espionage and city specialization. What were your city build orders? Around 1500 I only just reached Liberalism (got Printing Press for my free tech) and I only have 4 mature cities and about 5 that I've just founded and which I'm trying to build up. How did you get so many espionage points early in the game with only courthouses, before jails and security bureaus and intelligence agencies become available? Did you assign a particular spy specialist city?
Click to expand...

Make sure that your first great person is a Great Spy, by building a courthouse in Moskva asap and forcing the city to work a spy specialist. Naturally you then infiltrate Turkey with it. I usually take constitution as my free tech, so I research the much cheaper PP the hard way. Constitution gives you jails (esp.) and Taj Mahal. Democracy comes next because of the Statue of Liberty, which is great for a civ like Russia, Security Bureaus give additional espionage bonuses.

guspasho said:
Also, in my game, France is consistently ahead of Turkey in tech. That may be due to my trading with them earlier to keep up in the tech race but maybe that will change by 1600-1700. Should I expect that to change or should I focus my espionage on France?
Click to expand...

Turkey usually has the good military techs early, so that you don't have to research them. France is usually better later.

guspasho said:
I'm woefully behind in espionage points to hope to steal any techs. Other than building those espionage point buildings should I do anything else to catch up? I have some allocated toward Germany that I hope to use to capture some tiles in the Budapest BFC, but I don't know how that will work- Germany seems to get tiles in its start area even when I have 80% culture there.
Click to expand...

Again a city with a jail, courthouse and a security bureau makes 21 espionage points per turn, so with many cities that equals quite a lot. I build Budapest one south, so that it can work more tiles.

guspasho said:
In tech I'm trying to beeline for Physics and Communism to capture the free great scientist and free great spy, and to adopt state property. But your strategy suggests I should immediately research Constitution and Democracy. My other thought was to aim for Military Tradition/Replaceable Parts/Rifling so I can build Lumbermills and Cossacks to defend my Siberian cities. Suggestions/criticisms?
Click to expand...

Take Physics and Communism next, after democracy. Steal the military techs. Chopping in Siberia pays off, so no real need for the lumbermills.

guspasho said:
How many national wonders am I allowed to build in each city? Tallin gets Oxford as recommended and I guess the Opera House since it gets a lot of unhappiness due to crowding. Which cities should get the Stock Exchange/Trading Company and Interpol? Can anyone tell me from experience if it will be necessary or pointless to build the National Gallery in Budapest to capture the BFC tiles? I already have the Sistine Chapel there and I plan on putting my first cathedral and synagogue there, and whatever other religions' cathedrals.
Click to expand...

Two per city, I had Trading Company and Stock Exchange in Tallinn. Budapest might get some use from the National Gallery.
 
I usually like Trading Company/Stock Exchange/Oxford University all in the same city. The health bonuses from trading company help with huge populations these cities (such as Rome, St. Petersburg, London, New York, Tokyo) tend to accumulate as you specialise them more and more :)
 
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