1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Russian founding fathers

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by Mr. ZorG, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    88
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Russia, Vladimir
    good evening.

    since the Russian nation is present in the game, I would like to propose introducing into the branch the founding fathers of Russian figures who made a great contribution to the development of the American continent. the description for the English version can be taken from the wiki links or a translation from the Russian text, which I will compile, since the English and Russian versions of the texts are very different from each other.

    I also want to propose the improvements that these founding fathers will give, but I understand that they can be criticized. therefore, this issue can be discussed by all together.

    there are portraits on the wiki pages that you can take for a sample of 2D models.

    Alexander Andreyevich Baranov - Politics
    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Andreyevich_Baranov)
    First Chief Ruler of Russian America. built new settlements and small outposts in places of extraction of resources, schools for natives, shipyards, smelters. expanded the fur trade of sea otters and seals.
    + 25% fur (regular and premium) in all colonies
    +2 production in all administrative buildings
    I would suggest adding stocade in all settlements, but I'm afraid you will be unhappy with such a large list))

    Nikolai Petrovich Rezanov - Trade
    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Rezanov)
    Russian statesman, one of the founders of the Russian American company. at his own expense he bought, he bought a ship from the Bostonians to travel to the southern shores of America in search of food. thanks to his successful negotiations with the Spaniards in California, provisions were purchased for the starving colonies of Alaska.
    +1 Big Coastal Ship
    +1 Fishing Boat

    Ivan Alexandrovich Kuskov - Exploration
    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Kuskov)
    senior assistant to Alexander Baranov. the founder and chief of Fort Ross (from the moment of its founding to the time of sale), which was supposed to supply food to the northern colonies. he was friends and helped the natives from whom he bought land for the construction of the colony.
    +1 food in all colonies
    +1 to relations with natives

    Herman of Alaska - Religion
    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_of_Alaska)
    Orthodox monk sent by the head of the church to Alaska to carry the Word of God to the natives. he christened many thousands of locals.
    + 50% native conversion rate from mission
    +1 converted natives

    Ivan Fyodorovich Kruzenshtern - Military
    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Johann_von_Krusenstern)
    the first Russian navigator to circumnavigate the world (ships "Nadezhda" and "Neva"). distinguished himself in the war against Sweden (1788-1790). "Neva", under the command of F.M. Lisyansky, a friend and comrade of Kruzenshtern, took part in the war with the Tlingit, natives of Alaska.
    + promotions "Navigation 1" and "Veteran 1" for all ships
     
    raystuttgart likes this.
  2. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    If we find somebody who volunteers to create the 2D graphics I do personally do not mind adding a few more Founding Fathers. :thumbsup:
    (And yes, we really lack Russian Founding Fathers to my knowledge.)

    But we would really need to get the graphics.
    My own skills considering 2D graphics are not good enough for that. :c5unhappy:

    Ok. :thumbsup:

    He already is one of the two Leaders of the Russian Colonies. :c5unhappy:
    We can not have him twice (Leader and Founding Father).

    Bonusses are ok to me. :thumbsup:
    We could place him relatively early in the queue.
    And it would also be nice to have a FF giving a Big Coastal Ship.

    Bonusses are ok to me - even though the +1 food is really powerful early on. :thumbsup:
    We would need to check where to place him (probalby a bit later in the queue).

    The bonus is almost a copy of Bartolome de las Casas - we should not have the almost exact same bonus twice. :c5unhappy:
    Maybe we can think about something more unique. :dunno:

    Giving these 2 Promotions for all ships is a bit strong if he is early in the quese - and if we have him really late in the queue many ships will already have these Promotions. :c5unhappy:
    Maybe we can think about something more balanced / more specialized for specific ships. :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  3. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    By the way:
    I just counted our Founding Fathers per category.

    Exploration: 18
    Religion: 16
    Trade: 17
    Military: 20
    Politics: 17

    --------
    Total: 88

    I suggest to add FF only for the ones in green.
    (Religion, Trade and Politics)

    Why:
    There already have been complaints that it is really difficult to get enough FF-Points for all Founding Fathers in Exploration and Military.
    (Exploration heavily depends on MapSizes and Military heavily depends if you play militaristic and the numbers of the last FFs really scale heavily.)

    @Mr. ZorG
    Could we agree to only adding 3 more. (1 for each: Religion, Trade and Politics)
    Of course you can select which ones you have for the categories. :thumbsup:

    Edit:
    e.g. these 3 in these categories:
    • Herman of Alaska - Religion
    • Nikolai Petrovich Rezanov - Trade
    • Ivan Alexandrovich Kuskov - Politics
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  4. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    By the way guys:

    Once we have implemented some new features we could also give FF-Bonusses to these.
    • "Trading Posts in Native Villages"
    • "Happiness"
    • ...
    We are in no way limitted to the current FF-Bonusses because we can easily expand XML and DLL for a few small new modifiers (for new features).
    But of course we would then need to have the new features first.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  5. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    88
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Russia, Vladimir
    I don’t have them at all:undecide:
    maybe @Schmiddie will help us with this?:bowdown:


    accepted:thumbsup:


    I completely forgot about these new features ..

    Herman of Alaska
    - Religion

    + to colonial happiness (unfortunately, I did not understand how this will work and I leave the choice of % increase to you)
    + trading post in a natives camp with a mission

    more than a unique founding father:king:

    Ivan Alexandrovich Kuskov
    Exploration ---> Politics


    Yes, most likely you're right.
    in this case, I propose this edit:

    Ivan Fyodorovich Kruzenshtern
    Military ---> Trade


    + provides 1 Sloop

    Nikolai Petrovich Rezanov - Trade
    +1 Big Coastal Ship
    +1 Fishing Boat

    Ivan Alexandrovich Kuskov - Politics
    +1 food in all colonies
    +1 to relations with natives

    Herman of Alaska
    - Religion
    + to colonial happiness (unfortunately, I did not understand how this will work and I leave the choice of % increase to you)
    + trading post in a natives camp with a mission

    Ivan Fyodorovich Kruzenshtern - Trade
    + provides 1 Sloop

    this way we get the following sorting by category:
    Exploration - 18
    Religion - 17
    Trade - 19
    Military: 20
    Politics - 18
    ==========================================


    what do you think?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  6. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Current Concept:
    (tried to read the Pedia)

    ------
    Herman of Alaska
    - Religion
    (power rating: good - 1 strong bonus, 1 Unit, 1 small bonus)
    • + 1 (Yield) Happiness to Cities --> basically 1 free happy Citizens per City
    • + 1 Expert Missionary
    • + 1 to relations with natives
    ------
    Nikolai Petrovich Rezanov -
    Trade
    (power rating: average - 2 Units, 1 small bonus)
    • + 1 Big Coastal Ship
    • + 1 Expert Trader
    • + 25% Gold from Trading Posts in Native Villages
    ------
    Ivan Alexandrovich Kuskov -
    Politics
    (power rating: good - 1 strong bonus, 2 Unit, 1 small bonus)
    • + 1 (Yield) Food on central City Plot
    • + 2 Farmers
    • - 25% for buying Land from Natives
    ------
    Ivan Fyodorovich Kruzenshtern
    - Politics
    (power rating: average - 3 Units, 2 small bonus)
    • + 1 Sloop
    • + 1 Merchant Ship
    • + 1 Great Admiral
    • + 1 relations with other Europeans
    • + 1 relations to own King

    Thus we will end up with this number of Founding Fathers:
    • Exploration - 18
    • Religion - 17 (+1)
    • Trade - 18 (+1)
    • Military: 20
    • Politics - 19 (+2)
    --------
    Total: 92 (+4)
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
    Mr. ZorG likes this.
  7. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    88
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Russia, Vladimir
    I like it. however, I propose to change some of the advantages of Rezanov and Kuskov.

    Rezanov:
    + 1 Big Coastal Ship
    + 1 Farmer / + 2 Farmer
    + 25% Gold from Trading Posts in Native Villages

    Kuskov:
    + 1 food on central City Plot
    + 2 Expert Trader / + 1 Expert Trader
    - 25% for buying Land from Natives

    it would be more historical.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  8. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    ok :thumbsup:

    Edit:
    My Post is adjusted. (Only the numbers though.)

    Edit 2:
    But as Tugboatspotter also realized, the Bonusses you suggested were heavily mixed up.
    Thus I did not adjust it like that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  9. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Location:
    Germany
    I like the idea of having Russian FF but every implementation requires one thing: a picture with a very good quality and it must fit with the other FF pictures. Otherwise it looks weird.
     
    Atlas627 likes this.
  10. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    @Mr. ZorG
    Could you please check for good 2D graphic / pictures of these Russian Founding Fathers?
    (Basically the pictures should have head and upper body / shoulders in good quality.)

    If you do not find any for them, maybe you can find pictures of persons that look similar as these FFs did.
    But as Schmiddie said, they should have quite good quality.

    @Schmiddie
    Does this picture here look good enough to work with it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  11. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Location:
    Germany
    Yes, that is ok, but could be better. It needs to have good quality, needs to be huge enough and the person needs to look into the right direction.
     
  12. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Maybe Mr.Zorg can find better ones.
    He knows best where to look for them.
    Most of the good sites for these pictures will most likely be Russian web pages.
     
  13. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Location:
    Germany
  14. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2019
    Messages:
    188
    I am not loving some of these FF bonuses.

    Famous Nobleman is already a rare unit and is good enough, along with the relations bonus. The ships make this FF too untidy and lacking focus. But anyway, this guy seems to be an explorer first and foremost. I don't think politics fits here - the famous nobleman bonus should go to someone like Rezanov.

    Herman of Alaska - Ok

    Nikolai Petrovich Rezanov - Trade

    + 1 Big Coastal Ship
    + 1 Farmer / + 2 Farmer
    + 25% Gold from Trading Posts in Native Villages

    Farming or trade? which is it? If trade why farmers?

    Ivan Alexandrovich Kuskov - Politics
    (power rating: good - 1 strong bonus, 2 Unit, 1 small bonus)

    + 1 (Yield) Food on central City Plot
    + 2 Expert Trader / + 1 Expert Trader
    - 25% for buying Land from Natives

    Politics? but with farm and trade bonuses?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  15. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    You quoted my concept wrong, you mixed Farmers in here while it is 1 Trader in my post here.
    He was a Trader that was making contact with Natives and other Nations.

    You quoted my concept wrong and mixed Traders in here, while it is 2 Farmers in my Post here.
    He was a Politician that was focussed on acquiring farm land from the Natives.

    ----------

    Summary:

    Please quote and comment my post which is the actual concept (to be implemented) instead of quoting together several posts. ;)
    Otherwise you will just confuse community with wrong information.

    I am not mixing bonusses wildly, please trust me with that. :thumbsup:
    And also I am trying to properly check biographies / Wikipedia for finding bonusses that actually match.

    Spoiler :

    Mr. Zorg had probably just accidently messed up his post (the Bonusses) a bit.
    I thought he was just talking about numbers (which I had changed).
    At least that is what I believe because I did in fact not adapt my concept like that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  16. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    This could be changed like that to be a little bit more consistent:

    Ivan Fyodorovich Kruzenshtern - Politics
    (power rating: average - 3 Units, 2 small bonus)
    • + 1 Sloop
    • + 1 Merchant Ship
    • + 1 Great Admiral
    • + 1 relations with other Europeans
    • + 1 relations to own King
    Because he basically was both. :think:
    A great Commander of a small fleet and a Noble with political influence and prestige.

    In fact, he was foremost an Explorer. :thumbsup:
    But as I tried to explain, the list of the "Explorer FFs" is already too long.

    But he was also a Politician.
    So I really do not see any big problem to put him into the list of "Politics FFs". :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  17. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    88
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Russia, Vladimir
    I will look for portraits in good quality. the preliminary search has yielded nothing yet, but I will still look.

    No, I specifically changed the bonuses of these two FF. because, as I said, this will be historically more correct.
    secondly, if I remember correctly (it’s at the moment that I don’t have the opportunity to see the FF branches), different bonuses are given in different branches that are not directly related to them.

    Kuskov - 1 trader (he agreed with the natives on the purchase of land and mutual assistance).
    Rezanov - 1 farmer (he was negotiating with the Spaniards about food supplies)

    can't trade or food (or sale of food) be part of politics? ..

    Ivan Fyodorovich Kruzenshtern +1 Great Admiral
    By the way, I like the Great Admiral more)
     
  18. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,524
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Great. :thumbsup:

    Ok, I really thought it was just a mistake because it was really mixing wildly.
    I did not even consider to mix politics + food + trade. (Tugboatspotter would really be right then.)

    Summary:
    We need to think about consistence and gameplay.
    They need to have a focus (for feeling consistent in gameplay).
    Thus they can enhance a specific strategy.

    -----

    Also to everything I read in Colopedia the current bonusses still match. :dunno:

    Nikolai Petrovich Rezanov
    He was a Trader that was making contact with Natives and other Nations.
    --> Focussed on Trade with Natives

    Ivan Alexandrovich Kuskov
    He was a Politician that was focussed on acquiring farm land from the Natives.
    --> Focussed on acquiring Land from Natives and Food

    Let us please leave it as it is though. :thumbsup:
    I really do not want to have discussions like this about wildly mixed FFs bonusses all the time.
    Details like that considering consistency and gameplay really do matter.

    I will adjust my post like that. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  19. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    88
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Russia, Vladimir
    no problem. indeed, we could discuss and argue on this topic, however, this would not bring the desired result for a long time. therefore, I agree.
     
    raystuttgart likes this.
  20. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,769
    Is there a reason all Exploration bonuses have to come from Exploration FFs? An early Military FF that gives all ships Navigation 1 would be plenty thematic, yet would open up an interesting pathway of purposely fighting early so you could explore better. And so on, for different types of combinations.
     

Share This Page