Russian military resurgence/sabre rattling

[RedRalph]

From Ria:

VLASIKHA (Moscow Region), December 17 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will double its test launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles after 2009, the Strategic Missiles Forces (SMF) commander said on Monday.

"The number of launches will almost double after 2009 or 2010," Colonel General Nikolai Solovtsov told a news conference.

He said Russia is putting an average of three mobile and three or four fixed-site missile launching systems into operation every year.

He said new missile systems to be adopted soon by the SMF would enable the force to infiltrate any defenses, even those that have not been established yet, but did not specify the systems.

The general said that if U.S. missile defense elements are deployed in Poland and the Czech Republic, Russia's Strategic Missile Forces could aim long-range missiles at these sites.

"We have to take appropriate measures to prevent the weakening of Russia's nuclear deterrence under any circumstances. And I do not rule out that... some intercontinental ballistic missiles could be aimed at these Polish and Czech facilities," Gen. Solovtsov told journalists.

Russia will operate 48 fixed-site Topol-M (NATO reporting name SS-27) ballistic missiles by the start of 2008, an SMF spokesman said.

The SMF said previously that the system will be equipped with multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles (MIRV) in the next two or three years, adding the new system will help penetrate missile defenses more effectively.

As of December 2006, Russia's SMF operated 44 silo-based and three mobile Topol-M missile systems.

Col. Alexander Vovk also said Russia will conduct 11 launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles in 2008.

"A total of 11 combat training and test launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles are planned to be conducted next year," he said.

He said the adoption of a new ICBM, RS-24, would greatly strengthen the SMF's strike capability and Russia's nuclear deterrent, as well as that of its allies until the mid-21st century.

Just a question to Patroklos, the other military types here, how costly is Russias various new military endeavours, the fleets being re-established in the Med, (presumeably) moving the army back over the Urals, the Bear flights etc... think it is just sabre-rattling? If so, is that type of thing expensive?

 

[George2816]

From Ria:




Just a question to Patroklos, the other military types here, how costly is Russias various new military endeavours, the fleets being re-established in the Med, (presumeably) moving the army back over the Urals, the Bear flights etc... think it is just sabre-rattling? If so, is that type of thing expensive?

less then what profits they get from their natural gas supply of course!

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Just a question to Patroklos, the other military types here, how costly is Russias various new military endeavours, the fleets being re-established in the Med, (presumeably) moving the army back over the Urals, the Bear flights etc... think it is just sabre-rattling? If so, is that type of thing expensive?

At least they wear uniforms

 

[RedRalph]

At least they wear uniforms

thansk, that cleared everything right up

 

[Bronx Warlord]

thansk, that cleared everything right up

Ok Ralph. Pretend your a rifleman for just a minute. You got all your gear and your weapon. Your there to stem violence, patrol and keep order and engage/destroy the enemy.

Who do you want to fight? Someone in street clothing among others dressed most likely similer or someone in a clear, distinctive uniform. A single enemy military is much eazier to deal with. On any level you can think of. You have an insite into how they think and act, can referance past work, know about key commanders and weapon systems.

Or...

Bob Jahadi the 3rd with his trusty ( soviet made if he has some cash ironicly ) RPG in a black ski mask, a hoodie and some jeans with sneekers?

See what I mean?

 

[RedRalph]

Ok Ralph. Pretend your a rifleman for just a minute. You got all your gear and your weapon. Your there to stem violence, patrol and keep order and engage/destroy the enemy.

Who do you want to fight? Someone in street clothing among others dressed most likely similer or someone in a clear, distinctive uniform. A single enemy military is much eazier to deal with. On any level you can think of. You have an insite into how they think and act, can referance past work, know about key commanders and weapon systems.

Or...

Bob Jahadi the 3rd with his trusty ( soviet made if he has some cash ironicly ) RPG in a black ski mask, a hoodie and some jeans with sneekers?

See what I mean?

WTH does this have to do with a Russian military resurgence????

 

[Bronx Warlord]

WTH does this have to do with a Russian military resurgence????

Russians wear uniforms. I'd say that is a huge improvement in comparison to what I am used too.

More on topic

On the other hand they had trouble paying officers as recently as the late 90's, a whole lot of negelect and outright abuse as well from the chaos that went on with the breakup of the union. Criminal activity and I think they even still conscript. They also have had a bad run in chechnya for a long time. We will see if they can rebuild, like the other poster said it will take gas and oil wich Russia still has.

 

[RedRalph]

Russians wear uniforms. I'd say that is a huge improvement in comparison to what I am used too.

More on topic

On the other hand they had trouble paying officers as recently as the late 90's, a whole lot of negelect and outright abuse as well from the chaos that went on with the breakup of the union. Criminal activity and I think they even still conscript. They also have had a bad run in chechnya for a long time. We will see if they can rebuild, like the other poster said it will take gas and oil wich Russia still has.

Yeah they do, but I think its phased out by 2010...

 

[gallego]

Yeah they do, but I think its phased out by 2010...

Hence the technological build-up to compensate perhaps?

 

[Patroklos]

Just a question to Patroklos, the other military types here, how costly is Russias various new military endeavours

As far as I can tell they are simply modifying their existing missiles for the most part. We do that too, all the time. The difference is we don't go on the international news circuits and pretend every system upgrade is an evolutionary revolution in weapons design.

Russia's ICBMs can do exactly what they could do 40 years ago, hit other continents. Yay Russia. Meanwhile, quietly, the USs Minuteman IIIs just finished their latest upgrade. And guess what, just like 30 years ago they can still hit other continents, the horror.

As for costs, being as these are limited upgrades, not much. ICBMs get you a lot of bang for the buck. However, the fact that they are touting ICBM upgrades as the pinnicle of their resurgance and not a new fighter jet or tank or destroyer is telling. ICBMs are for all intents and purposes irrelevant, if you have them you have them if you don't you don't, there is really no more hand wringing to be done about after that is established.

Honestly, global nuclear war is only considered possible by a few deluded Russians these days, so who cares about ICBMs from day to day?

he fleets being re-established in the Med

Not really. They are deploying some units again to "show the flag" but nothing the US doesn't do year round and 10 times larger in scale. That base in Syria is little more than a fuel depot (since their UNREP capabilities suck, also telling). Improvement is all well and good, but don't lose site of how modest that improvement is.

,(presumeably) moving the army back over the Urals,

They can put it wherever they want, it doens't mean it isn't still 30 year old crap manned by conscripts.

the Bear flights

It is pretty amazing they got those dilapidated, ancient pieces of crap flying, I will give them that. Almost as amazing as the pilots our superhornets that intercepted them not laughing so hard they crashed when they actually saw them first hand.

etc... think it is just sabre-rattling? If so, is that type of thing expensive?

It is sabre rattleing, but not too expensive. A couple missile upgrades (that were were probablly mid life requirements anyway), a couple new blah warships, and some rebasing of land forces. Pretty normal stuff, routine really for any western nation.

Its encouraging they can actually fuel their aircraft and ships these days. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't brag about that.

 

[RedRalph]

I dont know Patro. I dont doubt for a minute that Russias military is extremely underfunded, a lot of the equiptment is obsolete etc... nonetheless, I still think you would be wetting yourself along with the rest of the world if the US went to war with them, as utteraly unlikely a scenario as that is. I still think they are the one nation America could say with 100% confidence they would annihilate in battle. I'm not saying Russia could win a war with the US. but I odnt buy your hubris. I reckon if it did kick off you'd be petrified, along with most people on Earth.

 

[Abaddon]

Spending the money that could be put to much better use.

 

[crabapple]

Well Putin and other Leaders in Russia still belive the cold war is still going on, so i guess they will continue to build more military

 

[RedRalph]

Well Putin and other Leaders in Russia still belive the cold war is still going on, so i guess they will continue to build more military

just like almost eveyrone else, huh?

 

[dosed150]

I dont know Patro. I dont doubt for a minute that Russias military is extremely underfunded, a lot of the equiptment is obsolete etc... nonetheless, I still think you would be wetting yourself along with the rest of the world if the US went to war with them, as utteraly unlikely a scenario as that is. I still think they are the one nation America could say with 100% confidence they would annihilate in battle. I'm not saying Russia could win a war with the US. but I odnt buy your hubris. I reckon if it did kick off you'd be petrified, along with most people on Earth.

well being at war with any nuclear power would be scary but do we even know if most of their missiles actually work, i mean theyre mostly old and probably havent been well maintained, and i dont think any nation would be stupid enough to use nukes unless it was backed into a corner, more likely a war between russia and nato would be a conventional war

 

[RedRalph]

well being at war with any nuclear power would be scary but do we even know if most of their missiles actually work, i mean theyre mostly old and probably havent been well maintained, and i dont think any nation would be stupid enough to use nukes unless it was backed into a corner, more likely a war between russia and nato would be a conventional war

AFAIK, the missile forces are the one branch of the military thats still fairly well-funded, believe me, they could get a few thousand ICBMS off if they needed too.

you see, a war between NATO and Russia would very quickly see Russia backed into a corner as they would be hoplessly outgunned conventionally

Just to make it clear: I think the chances of such a war happening are about 1:10,000 in the next 50 years. but if it did happen, I think the world would be divided into two camps: The frightened, and the too stupid to be frightened

 

[GinandTonic]

Re the Bear flights, I assumed that since they did the two flights either side of the Typhoon becoming operational they were fencing to see the different responce of the Typhoon to the Tornado.

 

[RedRalph]

Putin named Time magazines Person of the Year

 

[Pannonius]

I hope Russia will grow stronger.

 

[Godwynn]

Spending the money that could be put to much better use.

Somebody buy this man a drink, he just figured out all of life's secrets.