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Russian Revolution: Preventable?

Discussion in 'World History' started by Nylan, Apr 21, 2007.

  1. Nylan

    Nylan Characters Welcome

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    Could the Russian Revolutions and 1917 have been prevented? If not, why? If so, what changes would be necessary to avoid the revolutions.

    Yes, I do realize that there was also a revolution in 1905. However, I'd like to focus more on these later ones. If you can tie preventing the 1905 revolution to avoiding the February and October though, more power too you.
     
  2. trundle

    trundle Warlord

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    Within what limitations? Certainly they were preventable if, say, one was willing and able to kill everyone in Russia in 1916.
     
  3. Nylan

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    Well, that's debateable.

    However, I'd say as to something that could realistically have been done starting in the late 1800s.
     
  4. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    A competent Tsar could have prevented it from happening, like a competent Kaiser might have prevented WW1.
     
  5. xfactor99

    xfactor99 Warlord

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    The Russian Revolution of 1905 did essentially nothing to change the power structure in Russia. However, it had given liberals in Russia a sense of power, and Nicholas II's suppression of any further reform only escalated the situation even further. The biggest mistake autocratic rulers can make is to institute some reform, but not the whole package. This not only strengthens the resolve of the faction that desires reform, and also embitters them that the reform has not gone far enough. That is precisely what happened with the Revolution of 1905, and > Revolution of 1917.

    But how could the Revolution of 1905 been prevented? Well, if Russia hadn't gotten humiliated by the Russo-Japanese War. There were two ways they could have done this 1) not gotten annihilated, which was the long-term failure of Russia to adequately industrialize in the 19th century 2) not gone to war with Japan at all. Japan had been in a very favorable negotiating position prior to the conflict, however, and it's hard to see Russia just freely recognizing Japanese control of Manchuria and Korea. I blame this failure on the lethargic progress of industrialization in Russia during the 19th century - they were behind the rest of Europe by half a century or so. But that reflects the general protectionist policy of the dominant tsars of this time period, rather than a progressive program that the Russian Empire so desperately needed.
     
  6. Nylan

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    There were more forces at work than just Nicholas. Even taking him out of the picture doesn't solve the problems inherant in the system.
     
  7. BEHIND_THE_MASK

    BEHIND_THE_MASK A Liar... A Cheat...

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    Perhaps if the Tsardom would have made itself into a Constitutional Monarchy after the Revolution of 1905.

    I forgot, had Serfdom been abolised yet? If not that may have helped.
     
  8. Aramazd

    Aramazd Deity

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    I believe it was, but didn't the freed serfs have to pay really high land taxes, so they really weren't much better off?
     
  9. Nylan

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    Yes, serfdom was abolished.

    Also, Nicholas II fought anything that seemed even vaguely constitutional. They had a constitution and the illusion of reforms and rights, but in reality he had all the power.
     
  10. Nuka-sama

    Nuka-sama See ya! It has been a fun decade!

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    If Germany won WWI......
     
  11. BEHIND_THE_MASK

    BEHIND_THE_MASK A Liar... A Cheat...

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    Not really...

    Germany was still in the war when Russia made peace, and the Soviets made peace before the war was decided.

    Besides, Im even willing to bet that the Germans wouldn't want to start another war even if they won. The Terror. THE TERROR!
     
  12. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    I'd think the Germans would have not wanted a Bolshevik menace in Russia and probably sent troops on the side of the White Russians.
     
  13. BEHIND_THE_MASK

    BEHIND_THE_MASK A Liar... A Cheat...

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    You must still consider that the German people would be in turmoil. A victory in the World War wouldn't mean their troubles are gone and they're in the clear.

    They German's would have been lucky to get to Paris. But then they would have to find a way to fight the Brits and the Americans and that would likely cause millions of more casualties. The Germans wouldn't like a Bolshevik leadership in Russia but at the point of victory in the World War they would be worn out and invading Russia again wouldn't be easy for a tired army.
     
  14. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    If France had fallen the U.S. and England would have signed a peace agreement.
     
  15. BEHIND_THE_MASK

    BEHIND_THE_MASK A Liar... A Cheat...

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    Ya, Im sure they would have... Im glad Britain decided to sign a peace treaty when France fell in WWII

    OH WAIT!!!

    You cant truly tell what would have happened if France fell. The Germans would still have been in trouble having to support is collapsing allies.
     
  16. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Of course. Every high school student can tell us that. But do not underestimate the control and influence an absolute ruler has in an autocracy, as a lot of modern history students tend to do. As it is, it's quite widely known that the Tsar could have done a lot better.
     
  17. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

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    Well, it is indeed mostly to blame Nicholas here. He opposed the constitutional system way too much. He was on that way at least 50 years or more behind of Europe. Indeed a few more reforms had stopped everything. Even in 1917 he had to see he had lost the war. Sueing for peace with Germany, what would have been a much milder peace than Brest, would have meant that the whole revolution would not have taken place- if he announced further reforms, too. Without war and reforms a further revolution would not have happened.

    If Germany had taken Paris in the west France would have fallen and without France the Brits and US had less opportunities but to make peace as a prologned war would no be acceptable. Thus the troops were free to fight the Reds in the east (indeed German troops did fight the Reds until about 1920 until the Allies forced them to withdraw). More troops to fight the Reds would have meant a chance for the new independent states to save their independence. IOW: The chances for the Bolsheviks were less to save the power.

    Adler
     
  18. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    Had Tsar Alexander II lived, it's quite possible that the Russian revolution may never happen or if it did will be much more peaceful that it was in 1917 imho.
     
  19. BEHIND_THE_MASK

    BEHIND_THE_MASK A Liar... A Cheat...

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    Perhaps if the Revolutionists would have just assasinated Nicholas like they did Alexander then maybe some one with their head not quite up there ass would have come to power.
     
  20. Neonanocyborgasm

    Neonanocyborgasm Deity

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    If the promises of the revolution of 1905 were followed, there would not be a need for another revolution in 1917.
     

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