Russian Revolution: Preventable?

[cthom]

from what i recall of the history, if the duma had not blindly marched into WW1 the bolsheviks might never have had the popular base they got. imo the 1917 revolution was preventable.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I believe it was, but didn't the freed serfs have to pay really high land taxes, so they really weren't much better off?

They had to before Pyotr Stolypin (Russian Minister Of Internal Affairs which was assasinated in 1906.)


I think that it was WWI that caused Revolution - after all, Russia before the Great War was rapidly developing (First place in economic growth increase per year in the world). Althrough, of course, I have no respect for Nicholas as a ruler. He fired able goverment officials because, as he himself put it, they were "casting him in the shadow". He was a good family man, but totally incompetent as a Tzar.

if the duma had not blindly marched into WW1

What does it has to do with Duma? Not the Duma decided everything - and certainly not the foregin affairs. BTW, in first months of war, nearly everyone in Russia was in a great wave of patriotic fervour. Even the opposition in the Duma stopped their critics of the goverment. Only Lenin and Co. were agitating that it will be very good for Russia if it would lose the war...and it finally lost. In fact, Russia managed to lose to side which lost in the end.

And remember - even after the overthrown of Nicholas Bolsheviks did not gain power immediately. Just after the revolution it belonged to left-wing liberals, who realized the danger of Bolshies too late...

 

[cthom]

What does it has to do with Duma?

from what i recall of the history

i didn't say my memory was perfect!

 

[Alpha Killer II]

Could the Russian Revolutions and 1917 have been prevented? If not, why? If so, what changes would be necessary to avoid the revolutions.

Yes, I do realize that there was also a revolution in 1905. However, I'd like to focus more on these later ones. If you can tie preventing the 1905 revolution to avoiding the February and October though, more power too you.

HOW TO PREVENT THE REVOLUTION
#1 - Make the populace happy
#2 - Change the government from 1 rich family and a bunch of poor people to something else
#3 - Get a better army
#4 - Get the minds of the people (Lenin did this good)
#5 - Diplomacy, Diplomacy, Diplomacy
#6 - Do the changes Communism did, better army, industrialization, investments in animated propaganda, nationalism, hold down corruption, and alot more
#7 - I almost 4got, KEEP DOWN TAXES!!!!
#8 - NO BSES
-----
Did you know?...
During the Revolution, Capitalist Britain hired assasins to hunt down Lenin
and later, one old lady "thought" Lenin was a old Tsar and she shot Lenin by "accident" and even though he didnt die, it probably made his lifespan shorter

 

[Firstlady]

A competent Tsar could have prevented it from happening, like a competent Kaiser might have prevented WW1.

There was already a lot of opposition to any type of autocracy so no matter how competant a tsar was, there would still be opposition because the rest of the world was more modernized and now had some sort of democracy/parliament type thing rather than one man trying to control everything.

 

[Nylan]

I have compiled some notes (forgive the bias, I tried to make it as neutral as possible) from a few sites regarding many of the causes. They're not very good, and feel free to add to anything you think I may have missed. Keep in mind that some of the causes were interdependent on others for actually leading to the revolution. For example, WWI, while bringing in a few additional problems (like leaving Alexandria/Rasputin in charge for example), for the most part only amplified issues that were already there and were only waiting for a spark.

Spoiler :

Long Term Causes

“Peter the Great’s czardom increasingly became an autocratic bureaucracy generation after generation, that imposed its will on the people by force, with wanton disregard for human life and liberty.

Group called intelligentsia developed which were radical, highly educated and believed in abstract western ideals.

Alex II emancipated serfs in 1861 and brought about industrial development. Caused harsh economic conditions on the peasants. Developed proletariat that was open to radical fuse.

Clery began persecuting religious dissenters even more.

Short Term

WWI at first quited political protest uniting Russia against the enemy. As war dragged on things collapsed. Fatalism grew. Skeptism

-the war was a disaster (casualties, wounded, and POWs at the battle of Tannenberg were 120,000)

-The Tsar went to command the army, leaving an even more incompetent Alexandria in charge

-Rasputin had a voice in politics. People hated him and thus there was an even greater divide between the people and their rulers

-the economy was strained by the war to the point of collapse, and it wasn’t very good beforehand. Food shortages got worse. Inflation was horrible. It was hard to find food, and even then most people couldn’t afford it.

-Everything was blamed on Nicholas

Economy

-Before industrialization, Russia was agricultural and backwards

-Clergy and nobility owned most of the land. When the Serfs were freed by Alexander they weren’t much better off, as they owned very little land. Many only had 2 acres of land.

-Those who worked for the nobles rather than their own land had to pay very high rent and very large percentages of their crops (tributes) annually. This caused great discontent among the peasants. Some were ready to riot.

-Industrialization caused overcrowding and poor conditions for workers. Work hours were horrible (10 hour workday 6 days a week before the war, and no weekend holiday and 11-14 hour workdays by 1916)

-trade unions were not allowed, so workers were deprived even the smallest benefits.

-The industrial sphere was still very backwards despite industrialization beginning

-The industry (and therefore a large part of the economy) was highly dependant on foreign capital.

Social Problems

-Huge social imbalance

-The social situation and tensions are similar to those in France before their revolution, if not worse (I didn’t want to list out ALL the details)

-70% of the population was illiterate. The whole social structure lacked education, medical relief, or any form of public support

-The population was addicted to vodka, which drained them monetarily as well as in ability and coherence in the workplace and at home, lessening production and adding to preexisting depression.

-Flogging was a very common form of punishment, which added to the unhappy state of the general populace.

-The whole of social life was bleak, miserable, and bland

-The government, before and during Nicholas’s reign, did little or nothing to help improve conditions socially or economically.

 

[carmen510]

If Germany won WWI......

Actually, Germany SUPPORTED the Communists (Lenin) around 1915 and began to fuel revolution efforts to degrade the Tsardom. Little did they know what a mistake it would be in WW2.

The Russian Revolution could have been prevented if modernization began in the 1800s, and then the White forces could've stopped it. But I believe a revolution would still win, communist or not, if the Tsar kept up his incompetence.

 

[Alpha Killer II]

Go Soviets!

 

[Nylan]

Keep in mind that a White victory does not mean that the revolution didn't happen. The point isn't who would gain power, but rather preventing the event (or a similar event happening shortly afterwards if it was "postponed" by something minor)

 

[Alpha Killer II]

If the White Army won, then alot of great Soviet Achievements wouldnt happen...
T-34
World Power
Space Flight
Sputnik
ect.

 

[Nylan]

If the White Army won, then alot of great Soviet Achievements wouldnt happen...
T-34
World Power
Space Flight
Sputnik
ect.

That's not the question though

 

[Adler17]

Also are you really sure that these things did not happen anyway (except perhaps T 34)?

Adler

 

[ParkCungHee]

During the Revolution, Capitalist Britain hired assasins to hunt down Lenin
and later, one old lady "thought" Lenin was a old Tsar and she shot Lenin by "accident" and even though he didnt die, it probably made his lifespan shorter

ReallY? I didn't know you caught syphilis from bullets.

Also are you really sure that these things did not happen anyway (except perhaps T 34)?

Probably that as well, the Kharkov Locomotive Factory was highly influential during the Tsarist era before the Soviets, the suspension design was American and the Chief Designer was no die hard communist, so theres really nothing specifically to communism about it.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

ReallY? I didn't know you caught syphilis from bullets.

You dont... But I believe the bullet couldn't be removed, and I think it was the one in his neck.

And Im pretty damn sure that a Bullet in your neck will not be helpful if you have a stroke (As Lenin did) or catch syphilis.

 

[Alpha Killer II]

Also are you really sure that these things did not happen anyway (except perhaps T 34)?

Adler
Of Course, Industrialization wouldnt be reached (Which Stalin Pushed, which costed the lives of millions of Soviets who proudly sacrificed their lives for The Motherland!!) And w/o Industrialization, there wouldnt be a good chance of Russia reachin their...well as I said before Golden Age

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Adler[/I]
Of Course, Industrialization wouldnt be reached (Which Stalin Pushed, which costed the lives of millions of Soviets who proudly sacrificed their lives for The Motherland!!) And w/o Industrialization, there wouldnt be a good chance of Russia reachin their...well as I said before Golden Age

You sicken me...

I recall a story that went something like this:

"A man has been working on a Centralized Farming Plantation (or whatever their called) he has supported it and worked as hard as he can. Stalin's goverment honored the man and gave him a cermony and some awards. The Man, a peasant from a very poor family asked "Could I just have some bread some bread so I may feed my family?" The Man and his Family were shipped off to Siberia not to long after.

Stalin was a monster, he killed good communists who were no threat and only wanted to help the Union. He shipped them to the Gulags or had them slaughtered. My Great Grandfather was killed by Stalin, and he had actually served in the Red Army fighting the Whites.

Damn Stalin. Hell is to good for that beast.

 

[Alpha Killer II]

Alas, the guy "behind the mask" has showed why he is a Communist, and yet, hates Stalin

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Alas, the guy "behind the mask" has showed why he is a Communist, and yet, hates Stalin

Listen here you little Twirp. I dont care much for your opinion but damnit when I come into this forum every day only to see you kissing Stalin's ass I must question wether you be ignorant or not.

As for as Im concerned you can take ur crude Stalinist ideals and shove them straight up your bum.

 

[Alpha Killer II]

Listen here you little Twirp. I dont care much for your opinion but damnit when I come into this forum every day only to see you kissing Stalin's ass I must question wether you be ignorant or not.

As for as Im concerned you can take ur crude Stalinist ideals and shove them straight up your bum.

Ay, Ill gun u down SuCkA and Bust ur head open wit a Baseball Bat, now stay on topic <smacks The Guy behind the Mask>

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Listen here you little Twirp. I dont care much for your opinion but damnit when I come into this forum every day only to see you kissing Stalin's ass I must question wether you be ignorant or not.

As for as Im concerned you can take ur crude Stalinist ideals and shove them straight up your bum.

Ay, Ill gun u down SuCkA and Bust ur head open wit a Baseball Bat, now stay on topic <smacks The Guy behind the Mask>

My god...

Lenin must be rolling about in his grave... If all Socialists were portrayed by your actions then the USSR wouldn't have been feared it would have been givin a Scooby Doo Lunchbox, a Football Helmet and then sent off to School on the Short Bus.